Interesting chat a lunch over the ‘choices’ we have today as shooters…
Two of the folks were late 60’s early 70’s (“John” and “Joe”), myself, and then one ‘youngster’ (“Mike”) that was 35!
Us ‘old’ farts were talking about the ‘choices’ we had growing up, which pretty much consisted of getting to shoot what ever dad/mom, or grandpa/grandma had; which usually meant a shotgun, and some kind of .22 rifle, and either a Colt, Remington, Springfield, or S&W pistol (usually a revolver) in .32 or maybe .38 or a 1911.
Occasionally, there might even have been an old Winchester lever gun, or a rifle in 30 GOVT 06. Every once in a while that might have also included an M-1 or carbine or some bring back from the War… And they all had wood furniture, very few scopes, and the ‘range’ consisted of the back yard, or back 40, or out in the ‘country’…
Your ‘training’ was by whom ever owned the gun, and a lot of folks got the basics from ‘military’ style training (Most of us had multiple veterans in our families). You didn’t get to shoot hundreds of rounds, not even .22 unless YOU bought them with your own money (if I remember right, back in the 60’s a box of .22 longs were something like .50 cents, so I could get four boxes for each yard I mowed)…
Note- I can remember killing coyotes to pay for ammo and gas ($5/pair of ears), and never shooting on a ‘range’ till I went in the military in the 70s.
The youngster “Mike” has never shot a revolver, he grew up shooting Ruger .22 and 1911s until his dad got a Glock in 1990! His first rifle that he shot was a Colt AR-15 SP-1, and other than his military service, he’s never shot anywhere BUT on a range!!!
He was complaining about how hard it was to find ‘good’ gear for his AR at a reasonable price, and moaning about the cost of optics, and how he’d had to spend money to get his M and P upgraded with the Apex trigger, and trying to find a light for the rail.
Finally “John” told him to shut-up, that he didn’t realize how lucky he was, and of course he didn’t understand…
John proceeded to tell him that he’s NEVER owned a plastic gun, nor a AR platform, and he bought his last gun in 1980! And he’s perfectly happy with the ones he has, and wood is just fine, and all those fancy ge-gaws don’t mean a damn thing if you can’t hit what you aim at!!!
And “Joe” chimed in about practice, and how many rounds does he shoot, and does he practice at long range, and does he know the dope for his rifle, can he shoot with his weak hand, and can he snap shoot???
I just sat there and smiled, because these two had the poor Mike whip-sawed, and he had the proverbial deer in the headlights look!
And then Joe proceeded to give a good 10 minute dissertation on the AR platform from Stoner to the present, ALL the latest technology and how his is tricked out thanks to Brownells!
Then John started in again on all the new technology, and Mike finally stopped him asking, “but if you bought your last gun in 1980, why to you know so much about the new stuff?” John’s answer, “well I may not buy it, but I DO keep up with the stuff!”
If I were a new shooter today, I’d probably get brain lock just trying to figure out ‘what’ I really wanted… You can get just about any caliber, any manufacturer (of hundreds), any configuration, any furniture, any scope/optics from $30 to $3000; and do all that in pistols, rifles AND shotguns!!!
I think we had it a lot easier! Colt, Winchester, S&W, Mauser, Browning, Remington, Mossberg and Savage were pretty much it!!!
The other problem is there is so much information out there today, some good, lots bad, and oh so many instant experts on the webs, forums, etc. that it’s just about impossible to get an unbiased review of a product. It’s now pretty much a matter of hunt, peck, buy what you ‘hope’ is right, and add stuff until you get it the way you want it…
Eia has a good set of posts up HERE on just the basics, and he and Keads are both instructors and I’m sure they will offer advice…
And don’t get me started on ammo…
Or holsters…
Or training options…
But all of us recommended to Mike, regardless of what he gets, and what he carries, to go practice regularly! THAT is the true key, not the caliber, not the weapon, not the optics or lack of, not the rounds or the holster.
It’s how well YOU can run the gun, how well YOU can hit what you’re aiming at, how well YOU can defend yourself if required. And it’s not just about being able to do it in good light, in the a/c on the range either…
Somehow I don’t think he is going to want to go to lunch with us anymore…LOL
Two of the folks were late 60’s early 70’s (“John” and “Joe”), myself, and then one ‘youngster’ (“Mike”) that was 35!
Us ‘old’ farts were talking about the ‘choices’ we had growing up, which pretty much consisted of getting to shoot what ever dad/mom, or grandpa/grandma had; which usually meant a shotgun, and some kind of .22 rifle, and either a Colt, Remington, Springfield, or S&W pistol (usually a revolver) in .32 or maybe .38 or a 1911.
Occasionally, there might even have been an old Winchester lever gun, or a rifle in 30 GOVT 06. Every once in a while that might have also included an M-1 or carbine or some bring back from the War… And they all had wood furniture, very few scopes, and the ‘range’ consisted of the back yard, or back 40, or out in the ‘country’…
Your ‘training’ was by whom ever owned the gun, and a lot of folks got the basics from ‘military’ style training (Most of us had multiple veterans in our families). You didn’t get to shoot hundreds of rounds, not even .22 unless YOU bought them with your own money (if I remember right, back in the 60’s a box of .22 longs were something like .50 cents, so I could get four boxes for each yard I mowed)…
Note- I can remember killing coyotes to pay for ammo and gas ($5/pair of ears), and never shooting on a ‘range’ till I went in the military in the 70s.
The youngster “Mike” has never shot a revolver, he grew up shooting Ruger .22 and 1911s until his dad got a Glock in 1990! His first rifle that he shot was a Colt AR-15 SP-1, and other than his military service, he’s never shot anywhere BUT on a range!!!
He was complaining about how hard it was to find ‘good’ gear for his AR at a reasonable price, and moaning about the cost of optics, and how he’d had to spend money to get his M and P upgraded with the Apex trigger, and trying to find a light for the rail.
Finally “John” told him to shut-up, that he didn’t realize how lucky he was, and of course he didn’t understand…
John proceeded to tell him that he’s NEVER owned a plastic gun, nor a AR platform, and he bought his last gun in 1980! And he’s perfectly happy with the ones he has, and wood is just fine, and all those fancy ge-gaws don’t mean a damn thing if you can’t hit what you aim at!!!
And “Joe” chimed in about practice, and how many rounds does he shoot, and does he practice at long range, and does he know the dope for his rifle, can he shoot with his weak hand, and can he snap shoot???
I just sat there and smiled, because these two had the poor Mike whip-sawed, and he had the proverbial deer in the headlights look!
And then Joe proceeded to give a good 10 minute dissertation on the AR platform from Stoner to the present, ALL the latest technology and how his is tricked out thanks to Brownells!
Then John started in again on all the new technology, and Mike finally stopped him asking, “but if you bought your last gun in 1980, why to you know so much about the new stuff?” John’s answer, “well I may not buy it, but I DO keep up with the stuff!”
If I were a new shooter today, I’d probably get brain lock just trying to figure out ‘what’ I really wanted… You can get just about any caliber, any manufacturer (of hundreds), any configuration, any furniture, any scope/optics from $30 to $3000; and do all that in pistols, rifles AND shotguns!!!
I think we had it a lot easier! Colt, Winchester, S&W, Mauser, Browning, Remington, Mossberg and Savage were pretty much it!!!
The other problem is there is so much information out there today, some good, lots bad, and oh so many instant experts on the webs, forums, etc. that it’s just about impossible to get an unbiased review of a product. It’s now pretty much a matter of hunt, peck, buy what you ‘hope’ is right, and add stuff until you get it the way you want it…
Eia has a good set of posts up HERE on just the basics, and he and Keads are both instructors and I’m sure they will offer advice…
And don’t get me started on ammo…
Or holsters…
Or training options…
But all of us recommended to Mike, regardless of what he gets, and what he carries, to go practice regularly! THAT is the true key, not the caliber, not the weapon, not the optics or lack of, not the rounds or the holster.
It’s how well YOU can run the gun, how well YOU can hit what you’re aiming at, how well YOU can defend yourself if required. And it’s not just about being able to do it in good light, in the a/c on the range either…
Somehow I don’t think he is going to want to go to lunch with us anymore…LOL
Man, that needed to be said.
There are a number of us who just can’t cost-justify the constant expenditure of new hardware.
There’s a lot of stuff I haven’t handled or fired.
What I’ve got suits me and is effective.
It reminds me that when I rode, the saying was “Never ride something you can’t afford to buy”.
It’s amazing what is available, but when the hundred dollar bills start disappearing like dust in front of a vacuum cleaner, it places it all in perspective.
I’ve spent time on the range, but enjoyed shooting much more on empty sections of the beach during the winter.
The one gun I really wanted, but never could justify was a .375 Weatherby Magnum. It was one of those obsessions that I left on the side during my travels.
Very well said!!!
I can’t begin to tell you how many new shooters I see that get into all the “geekery” before they even know how to shoot! It’s an amazing percentage.
I think the biggest difference I see between those that taught me to shoot (my uncles) and new shooters is that for my uncles, the firearm was a tool. And, just like a hammer or skil-saw or drill press – they demanded you know how to use the tool.
Today’s shooter sees a weapon as a “toy” to be added to, modified, and tweaked until it’s “just right”.
Can’t hit the broad side of a barn?? “I got an add-on” for that!
As for the young guy – I suspect he’ll be back. While most guys that age know everything – in their hearts they recognize wisdom. He’ll be back.
I came up “old school”. What eia said on the geeking up before a shot has been fired. Your advice is sound Sir! Once you settle on something learn how to run it.
We DID have it easier back in the day.
Learned to shoot well in Jr. Riflemen. Ammo was .50 cents a box.
The payoff was Army Basic Training. Your first three rounds were to zero your rifle. The target was close; maybe five feet. My first three holes could be covered with a nickel.
Guess it all comes down to what turns your crank. Form, sight picture, and trigger are basic to anything. If you don’t have those, no amount of “stuff” is going to make much of a difference.
One of my wife’s complaints is that she has never shot anything but paper and on a fully organized range. She is a fully vetted rifle instructor but has never had the opportunity to “plink”. Yah the world has changed. She does have an appreciation for wood though. Her current favorite seems to be her Mosin-Nagant.
Well, we do need to keep in mind a couple of things.
Back in the Ye Olde Dayz, if one saw a Teen Age Boy walking down the Street with a .22 over his shoulder, the only question that might be asked of him was where he was going to do his Plinking, the Town Dump or the Old Quarry. Nowadays, the SWAT Team would be called out and the Kid would be Dead.
And even if the Attitude towards Youths and Firearms was the same as it was back in the Ye Olde Dayz, the Kid would be screwed because the Town Dump is now Closed due to the EPA, and the Quarry has been turned into a “Wildlife Sanctuary,” with “No Guns Allowed” posted all over the Place.
Just be glad we still have Indoor Ranges for people to shoot in. Of course, if the TreeHuggers who are running the EPA decide that there’s “Too Much Lead Dust in the Air” (i.e., One Part per UNIVERSE), then we are all screwed.
I am getting more and more comfortable with the retreat from the noise and confusion. It is very simple, gun, target, engage, reload and repeat until happy.
Ed- Good points all!
Jess- SO true, and there are ones that ALL of us have let get away. 🙁
eia- Thanks! Good point on the ‘tools’, that IS the way they looked at it!
Keads- Yep… sigh
WSF- VERY true!
45ACP- Concur, and NOTHING wrong with the old stuff 🙂
Les- You’re right, hell we used to ride bikes with our guns on the handlebars!!!
Earl- Concur! 🙂
Just to put in a plug from sort of the same place- tell the young guy to go to an Appleseed shoot!
I shot Pistol Expert and Rifle Sharpshooter in the Navy with a little instruction. If they’d had Appleseed 25 years ago, I could have got Expert Rifle. They teach the basics that have worked for 100+ years. Wish I’d gotten that in the Navy.
Tell everyone about Appleseed! Revolutionary War history plus great rifle instruction, for $35 a day! Can’t beat it. (and I’m not one of the Appleseed guys, but I am going to my 2nd one to see if I can make Rifleman this time around)
I’m kind of going through that now that I’m trying to figure out what to put in the new rifle. There are so many choices for the most inconsequential things (30 choices for the trigger guard? Really?) that I’m getting the thousand yard stare sometimes.
Then I think back to my step-dad’s AR. You had a choice with it: use it or don’t use it. It came the way it was made, and you didn’t have accessories to put on it. Same basic gun that I’m trying to build, but no rail farms, no real options for optics, and you shot the steel magazines the way that you were meant to, warts and all.