Ring… Ring… It’s 0300 again….

Just an FYI, Norman Polmar really IS an expert…

WASHINGTON — A pair of nuclear-powered Russian attack submarines has been patrolling off the eastern seaboard of the United States in recent days, a rare mission that has raised concerns inside the Pentagon and intelligence agencies about a more assertive stance by the Russian military.

The episode has echoes of the cold war era, when the United States and the Soviet Union regularly parked submarines off each other’s coasts to steal military secrets, track the movements of their underwater fleets — and be poised for war.

But the collapse of the Soviet Union all but eliminated the ability of the Russian Navy to operate far from home ports, making the current submarine patrols thousands of miles from Russia more surprising for military officials and defense policy experts. “I don’t think they’ve put two first-line nuclear subs off the U.S. coast in about 15 years,” said Norman Polmar, a naval historian and submarine warfare expert.

The submarines are of the Akula class, a counterpart to the Los Angeles class attack subs of the United States Navy, and not one of the larger submarines that can launch intercontinental nuclear missiles.

According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The location of the second remained unclear. One senior official said the second submarine traveled south in recent days toward Cuba, while another senior official with access to reports on the surveillance mission said it had sailed away in a northerly direction. The Pentagon and intelligence officials spoke anonymously to describe the effort to track the Russian submarines, which has not been publicly announced.

President Obama spoke by telephone with President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia on Tuesday, but it was not clear whether the subject of the submarines came up, although another source of friction between the two countries did. Mr. Medvedev called Mr. Obama to wish him a happy birthday and the White House said the president used the opportunity to urge Russia to work through diplomatic channels to resolve rising tensions with Georgia.

The submarine patrols come as Moscow tries to shake off the embarrassment of the latest failed test of the Bulava missile, a long-range weapon that was test fired from a submarine in the Arctic on July 15. The failed missile test was the sixth since 2005, and some experts see Russia’s assertiveness elsewhere as a gambit by the military to prove its continued relevance.
“It’s the military trying to demonstrate that they are still a player in Russian political and economic matters,” Mr. Polmar said.

One of the submarines is the newer Akula II, officials said, which is quieter than the older variant and the most advanced in the Russian fleet. The Akula is capable of carrying torpedoes for attacking other submarines and surface vessels as well as missiles for striking targets on land and at sea.

Defense Department officials declined to speculate on which weapons might be aboard the two submarines. While the submarines have not taken any provocative action beyond their presence outside territorial waters of the United States, officials expressed wariness over the Kremlin’s motivation for ordering such an unusual mission. “Anytime the Russian Navy does something so out of the ordinary it is cause for worry,” said a senior Defense Department official who has been monitoring reports on the submarines’ activities.

The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines. “We’ve known where they were, and we’re not concerned about our ability to track the subs,” the official added. “We’re concerned just because they are there.”

‘Scuse me while I throw the Bulls**t flag here… They’ve cut the Navy budget, using those funds to pay for the Army, so less days at sea, less money for maintenance, less for training; and what ever else the Soviets, er… Russians are putting their “best” drivers out there, not the trainees…

Once among the world’s most powerful forces, the Russian Navy now has very few ships regularly deployed on the open seas. Moscow has contributed warships to the international armada searching for Somali pirates. In addition, a flotilla of Russian warships participated in exercises with Venezuela last year.

But they are NOT our friends, don’t believe for a minute they will not take every opportunity to go right back to trying to do the same stuff they did as the “Soviet Union”. Putin is a former KGB officer, and he IS a hardliner. Russia now has real money, from oil, and have the capability to succeed where they failed before.

Comments

Ring… Ring… It’s 0300 again…. — 14 Comments

  1. drjim………….

    Both bears are stirring, which is a good thing. America is becoming awake, now all we have to do is impeach NObama………….

    This makes me so mad it isn’t funny. The Russians snaking in international waters, getting any intelligence they can, and our Commander and THIEF asleep at the wheel.

  2. I know so little about this that I have to keep reminding myself… I don’t have the means to an opinion.

    My first thought? Honestly? Make a public invitation for the buggers to come in to port for liberty.

    Of course they would not do so, and would not even acknowledge the invite… but I wonder how they would react internally. If their goal is to cause concern, an invite to a tea party might make them wonder why they bother.

  3. In all seriousness, how much of a threat is one or two submarines off our coast? Especially if we can track at least one. And if it even is their best drivers, they can’t have had much experience operating this far from home recently. Of course this could be the whole point, to gain experience for the crews. I’ll be more worried if we see more long distance deployments in the next year.

  4. Obama will send the Russian a very sternly worded letter.He will tell them to promise to be good. and he will forget the whole matter. God Help us.

  5. Putin wants the return of the Russian Empire. He thinks he can get away with this now that we have a Marxist government.

    We’ll just have to see.

    Mongo, during the Cold War, some Soviet ships did visit—surface ones, after being invited. I think there may have been a case where one came in for emergency repairs (I’m a bit fuzzy on it though, NFO may remember better.)

  6. Some questions for those who know. These submarines carry 12 cruise missles with about 1,300 mile range. Can they attain enough altitude to be a viable EMP warhead carrier? If not, could they be escorting a ballistic missle sub.

    We have a president they don’t seem to respect or fear. An EMP isn’t exactly a nuclear bomb (to the average civilian). Would Obama strike back?

    Is this even a feasible idea? Just me being paranoid.

  7. Public information is these submarines can carry 12 submarine launched cruise missles. Can these cruise missles attain enough height to be an EMP warhead carrier? With public information range, one of the East Coast and one in the Gulf of Mexico covers a lot of our territory. Given as USA president thye don’t respect/fear, is this a possible scenario?

  8. drjim- Yep, hibernation is over…

    CPD- the “cold war” never ended, it just went into the deep freeze for a while, until the Russians could regroup; and now they have.

    Mongo- we have invited them into port, and they have actually accepted (with surface units only). They probably already have “reps” attending the tea parties…

    Top- Significant if we don’t know where they are- compromises our units, etc. They are gearing up, trust me, we WILL see them again.

    JR- Yep

    Fuzzy- dang now I gotta get ANOTHER keyboard… coffee spray is not good 🙂

    Crucis/ADM- good points!

    Tank- Yes, probably not, Yes and yes. This was the “scenario” from years ago, coming back again…

    CS- They ARE extending their “patrol” regions according to published news reports…

  9. Maybe this is an unknown part of the stimulus package: The P-3 Pilot Employment Act of 2009

    Gerry