Testing… testing…

This has been a subject of discussion amongst a few of us for a couple of weeks. The person’s account below is known to three of our group, and he is NOT a whiner or complainer…

He’s an ex-Navy diver, working for a government organization; he has travelled extensively world-wide. This is his account of what happened on Flight 297 on the taxiway and at the gate in Atlanta…

One week ago, I went to Ohio on business and to see my father. On Tuesday, November the 17th, I returned home. If you read the papers the 18th you may have seen a blurb where a AirTran flight was cancelled from Atlanta to Houston due to a man who refused to get off of his cell phone before takeoff. It was on Fox.

This was NOT what happened.

I was in 1st class coming home. 11 Muslim men got on the plane in full attire. 2 sat in 1st class and the rest peppered themselves throughout the plane all the way to the back. As the plane taxied to the runway the stewardesses gave the safety spiel we are all so familiar with. At that time, one of the men got on his cell and called one of his companions in the back and proceeded to talk on the phone in Arabic very loudly and very aggressively. This took the 1st stewardess out of the picture for she repeatedly told the man that cell phones were not permitted at the time. He ignored her as if she was not there.

The 2nd man who answered the phone did the same and this took out the 2nd stewardess. In the back of the plane at this time, 2 younger Muslims, one in the back, isle, and one in front of him, window, began to show footage of a porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud about it. Now….they are only permitted to do this prior to Jihad. If a Muslim man goes into a strip club, he has to view the woman via mirror with his back to her. (don’t ask me….I don’t make the rules, but I’ve studied). The 3rd stewardess informed them that they were not to have electronic devices on at this time. To which one of the men said “shut up infidel dog!” She went to take the camcorder and he began to scream in her face in Arabic. At that exact moment, all 11 of them got up and started to walk the cabin. This is where I had had enough! I got up and started to the back where I heard a voice behind me from another Texan twice my size say “I got your back.” I grabbed the man who had been on the phone by the arm and said “you WILL go sit down or you Will be thrown from this plane!” As I “led” him around me to take his seat, the fellow Texan grabbed him by the back of his neck and his waist and headed out with him. I then grabbed the 2nd man and said, “You WILL do the same!” He protested but adrenaline was flowing now and he was going to go. As I escorted him forward the plane doors open and 3 TSA agents and 4 police officers entered. Me and my new Texan friend were told to cease and desist for they had this under control. I was happy to oblige actually. There was some commotion in the back, but within moments, all 11 were escorted off the plane. They then unloaded their luggage.

We talked about the occurrence and were in disbelief that it had happen, when suddenly, the door open again and on walked all 11!! Stone faced, eyes front and robotic (the only way I can describe it). The stewardess from the back had been in tears and when she saw this, she was having NONE of it! Being that I was up front, I heard and saw the whole ordeal. She told the TSA agent there was NO WAY she was staying on the plane with these men. The agent told her they had searched them and were going to go through their luggage with a fine tooth comb and that they were allowed to proceed to Houston. The captain and co-captain came out and told the agent “we and our crew will not fly this plane!” After a word or two, the entire crew, luggage in tow, left the plane. 5 minutes later, the cabin door opened again and a whole new crew walked on.

Again…..this is where I had had enough!!! I got up and asked “What the hell is going on!?!?” I was told to take my seat. They were sorry for the delay and I would be home shortly. I said “I’m getting off this plane”. The stewardess sternly told me that she could not allow me to get off. (now I’m mad!) I said “I am a grown man who bought this ticket, who’s time is mine with a family at home and I am going through that door, or I’m going through that door with you under my arm!! But I am going through that door!!” And I heard a voice behind me say “so am I”. Then everyone behind us started to get up and say the same. Within 2 minutes, I was walking off that plane where I was met with more agents who asked me to write a statement. I had 5 hours to kill at this point so why the hell not. Due to the amount of people who got off that flight, it was cancelled. I was supposed to be in Houston at 6pm. I got here at 12:30am.

Look up the date. Flight 297 Atlanta to Houston.

If this wasn’t a dry run, I don’t know what one is. They wanted to see how TSA would handle it, how the crew would handle it, and how the passengers would handle it.

I’m telling this to you because I want you to know….
The threat is real. I saw it with my own eyes….

-Tedd

FWIW, we think this was a dry run, and like the incident with the Imams a test to see how far they could push the envelope.

Although this statement- “In the back of the plane at this time, 2 younger Muslims, one in the back, isle, and one in front of him, window, began to show footage of a porno they had taped the night before, and were very loud about it. Now….they are only permitted to do this prior to Jihad. “ Makes me wonder if they were going to try to overpower the crew and create a crash scenario…

There is no question the radicals and terrorists are feeling their oats under the new administration, and I believe it is only a matter of time until something else happens…

Especially after the hands off with Hasan, and the “don’t jump to conclusions” comments from the administration… sigh…

Comments

Testing… testing… — 430 Comments

  1. Oh my, this is scary! I now have another reason not to fly. The terrorists have accomplished what they wanted…they have frozen the American way of travel.

    Thanks to the two men who weren’t afraid to stand up and be counted.

  2. Good for the two passengers. Good for the crew that walked off. Not good; the eleven disruptive passengers not being charged with a crime, i.e. interfering with a flight crew.

  3. What is interesting is that they were allowed back on the plane after clearly violating federal law.

    Sounds like a desensitizing campaign.

  4. I searched for an article about this but all they had to say was that a man refused to shut off his cell phone? That is quite a bit different than the story you have here. Why are they pushing this under the rug? Why not let the US people know that another attack is being tested? Remember, it took ten years for them to get it right to take down the towers and they seem to have forever on their side………..God help us all.

  5. If true, I’m more concerned about the AirTran reaction than anything.

    Replacing the Pilot in Command because he canceled the flight due to safety concerns? That’s just breath-takingly jaw-droppingly, borderline(?) criminally irresponsible.

    I *hope* we hear this is just another internet fabrication. Failing that, there had better be darned good explanation for AirTran.

  6. correction.. NFO, is the part in blue your words? You personally know the man giving the account?

    In that case, strike the “hope this is just another fabrication” part.

    I apologize for misreading you.

  7. Scary and sobering …. thank God that there are people who are willing to stand up to the threat AND not stay silent.

  8. Linda- Agreed

    WSF- welcome to the PC world…

    FD- Yep…

    Alan- I wonder, there are a whole host of questions that aren’t being answered…

    Gia- We think it’s PCism at its full blown best… Don’t rock the islamic boat, etc.

    Jenny- I don’t know that we will ever hear the truth, the blue is my writing, the black is what I received. I don’t personally know the guy, but three others in our group do. Based on their responses, I think this is the truth of what happened.

    Julie- Agreed, but for how much longer???

  9. Good Christ, I’m just hoping your BLOG doesn’t disappear, as part of the suppression effort.

    This is pretty freaky, but depending on the aircraft, eleven unarmed men aren’t enough to overwhelm a crew and all passengers. I’d stand up to an unarmed man on a plane, and I’m just a large woman.

    My guess would be that the eleven in full Muslim regalia were only the visible portion of this test run, if that’s what it was.

    I wonder if there were nine (or nineteen) women and men on board, dressed as students and business people, watching avidly and waiting for takeoff.

  10. As a fellow resident of the Houston area, THANK YOU< TEDD!! For having the leadership qualities critical to our survival as a nation! Semper Fi’ & Hand Salute!
    DM

  11. Think about this… There were 70 passengers. 11 were supposedly Muslims. That leaves 59 other passengers plus crew. Why have we not heard anything from the rest of the people? Why do we only have an email from “a friend” of a person on the plane whom no one has (as far as I know) taken the time to verify the validaty of that email or the man in questions? Has anyone checked the flight manifest? How about calling around and checking the facts? I don’t believe this is true at all. Get me the facts that prove this is true and I’ll change my mind.

  12. So, if this story is true, I wonder what would have happened if the plane were already in the air when the disruption started.

  13. There’s far too much detail here for this to be a fabrication.

    And even if it is, it’s still a template on how to/how not to handle such a situation.

    Ever since 9/11, I’ve been firmly resolved to strike first (and take any lumps later) at the first sign of any Muslim bullshit ANYWHERE, not just on planes.

  14. Six- Who knows…

    DM- Agreed!

    New- Thx, It is interesting that other items are coming out, that seem to corroborate the incident.

    Anon- Working on it.

    Crucis- agreed!

    bblack- Personally, I think things would have gone rodeo…

  15. Raven- Thank you!

    DiMw- You know damn well if it’d been a bunch of Rednecks, they would be…

    Wake Up- I think so too, but I have been ‘burned’ before. If I’m wrong, I will admit it…

  16. Absolutely blows me away that ANY of the passengers stayed on the plane for the flight …. or that a crew would fly it with these mongrels on board!

    Multi-culti PC is making lemmings out of all western society.

    God help us!

  17. Ye-eah, I kinda went off on the AJC ……………

    ~~~~~~

    To: AJC

    Re: Atlanta-Houston AirTran incident

    Ya know, you COULD HAVE contacted other passengers before you flew into print ………………….

    the first is the report of a passenger who tried to assist the flight attendants {sorry, you’ll have to ask the Old NFO Blog
    owner for contact information}; the second is from a Chaplain who took the delayed flight – HIS contact information is
    right at the bottom of his narrative.

    http://oldnfo.blogspot.com/2009/11/testing-testing.html
    http://espositosmusings.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/air-tran-flight-297-incident/

    Sorry, but sloppy, lazy reportage isn’t making it anymore – oh, for the days of editors demanding “WHO-WHAT-WHEN-
    WHERE-HOW-WHY” without editorial commentary/advocacy from their “reporters”.

    Your adherence to political rectitude does a disservice to the profession YOU CHOSE, and to the people you claim to
    “serve”. Too bad that “truth” is such a rare commodity these days.

    Semper Fi’
    Mary L*******

    Sammenhold – Danish for “Solidarity”

    Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.– Elbert Hubbard

    Well-behaved women seldom make history.

    ~~~~~~

    Semper Fi’
    DM

  18. I’m thinking I hit a nerve @ the AJC – their response:

    What are you talking about? We talked to “other passengers” before publication as well as MORE THAN ONE federal agency and THE AIRLINE IN QUESTION BEFORE PUBLICATION. Sorry ALL of the people and federal agencies WE DID TALK TO, who had first hand knowledge, did not have the same account as the one we ARE TRYING TO TALK TO but cannot reach. Sorry we did not get your first hand account. Were you on the flight? We welcome it now. We have gone back and run the “Muslim” account back at other people AND FEDERAL AGENCIES we talked to at first and they say it is not what they witnessed or discovered. We are still awaiting hearing from the originator of the email (Mr. Petruna) and have spoken to Mr. Hackenack who said he was not on the plane but has faith in the account offered by Mr. Petruna. I respect your opinion but to characterize our reporting on this as either sloppy or lazy or in service of political correctness would be inaccurate.

    Thank you for reaching out.

    David Gibson
    Breaking news manager/PM
    ajc.com

    ~~~~~~

    Mr. Gibson, given his abundant use of CAPITALIZATION OF WORDS, apparently has some aner management issues ……………….. 😉 😉 😉

    {Laughing myself silly}
    Semper Fi’
    DM

  19. We’re slaves to political correctness, which is why we’re in the pickle we’re in. It will be our downfall, and the jihadists/Muslims/terrorists/Islamists/camel knockers/call-them-what-you-will are very aware of it. And laughing their arses off. God help us.

    Love

    Granny (wife of a vet)

  20. Evidently, Mr. Gibson checked this site out – he responded to my commentary here – jeez, and here I thought all us bloggers/facebookers/whatevers were being studiously ignored by the Grand High Poobahs of the MSM ……………….. 😉 😉 😉

    Semper Fi’
    DM

  21. DM- that is even more interesting…

    Skip- Air Marshals are not on every flight. They fly mostly longer distance or “major” airports.

  22. With respect, both first-hand accounts we have are very “right” leaning in diction and self-description. They still feel a little too targeted to me to be really comfortable with them.

    That’s not saying they’re wrong or lying.. just that I’d like a little more confirmation from a wider spectrum of sources… or better yet, an interview.

    That said, both descriptions certainly do nicely fit “between the lines” of what the official stories are leaving out. The news stories are entirely too coy about the gentlemen in question to pass the sniff test either.

    Sorry Mr. Gibson – I’ve just seen too many stories buried or twisted all out of sorts from what I’ve immediate knowledge of to give you guys the benefit of the doubt anymore either.

    .. but I REALLY want to hear from AirTran. 🙁

  23. It is indeed odd that the story was sanitized to that degree … especially with so many passengers involved directly. This HAS to be made public in the most effective manner possible! There had to have been quite a few people within earshot of the physical confrontation. The spin-doctors must know these corroborations would be made public, and they were.

    Could have been a test. IMHO, it was a near-miss. In either case Americans are realizing that they have to stand up in protection of their own safety. TSA response, if it occurred as reported, was lame. Allowing the moslems back on the plane was foolish.

    At the very least, the principles in this event were brought face-to-face with the enemy. They were able to walk away. As a number of comments said, PC has crippled us severely. It was brought upon us incrementally and with stealth, and it looks like our reaction and our revolt must take place in the same manner.

  24. Just an FYI – pick up a copy of “Caliphate’ by Tom Kratman, published by Baen Books, for a look into the future if this isn’t stopped.

  25. I was on a flight less than 2 weeks after 9-11, from Cali to Nevada. In the terminal, myself and 3 other guys were watching everyone closely. We saw each other, recognized what we were all doing, and settled into a routine. We never spoke.

    On board, we took evenly spaced seats, front to back. (Southwest allows you to seat yerseff.) We took note of where each of us were, and provided a civilian air guard. I’m sure the others were as prepared to act as I was. I had the sense that it wasn’t necessary, so soon after the attacks, but ya know? – I STILL stand guard on every flight, and occasionally I see others doing the same, but never with the same corp spirit.

    We have to keep up our guard, always and everywhere, and no matter for how long. One day, we’ll need to move quickly to survive, or protect those on the ground. We can’t be lazy, stupid and unprepared.

  26. The greater narrative of all stories match up with each other – that’s the interesting thing. A group of non-English speakers board a plane, and one of them creates a disturbance sufficient for the PIC to return to the gate and the group to be kicked of the a/c, and another attendant to be emotionally upset. The airline offered to rebook passengers, and a significant number accepted.

    All that’s from the “official” AJC version, and reading it again.. I’m actually *more* convinced of the veracity of other claims. All the main details line up… but all the pesky non-PC information is left out.

    So yeah. Color me extra unimpressed with the AJC now. I could still be convinced of the “it was all a misunderstanding” explanation, but it would take some mighty smooth talking at this point.

    (and for future reference, an anonymous “you’re nuts” isn’t smooth talking). 🙂

  27. Maybe this will be “smooth” enough for you, Jenny. The Atlanta paper tracked down the passenger seated directly behind the man who caused the whole thing. I think she was in row 28 or 29 – almost to the back of the plane. But if you’d rather believe that a guy seated in first class had a better vantage point, go right ahead. If this man’s story is so real, he should come forward and discuss it to any media outlet that will listen. Where is he??

  28. Old NFO,

    Awesome blog, by the way! Thanks for being a Veteran and being who you are.

    I posted/linked this particular blog on my FB wall so hopefully more people will read it. It’s worthy of national attention.

    Long Live the Republic, and God Bless America, indeed.

    Donald Borsch Jr.
    Bethel, CT
    Husband, Father, Veteran, and Christian Conservative

    http://www.donaldborschjr.blogspot.com/

  29. If this guy was flying first class from OHIO, why did he have a layover in ATL? You’d think anyone that could fly first class could afford a nonstop flight.

    I am skeptical.

  30. Jenny/RWL- I agree, and am STILL trying to get this verified… I have been contacted by some media folks and passed along the actual sender’s information, they intend to contact him. Is it a hoax? I still don’t know. Is it a media coverup? I still don’t know.
    One thing I do know- It has sparked a WHOLE BUNCH of interest from all sides…

    Anon- I still don’t have all the answers… I’m trying… And yes, I read fiction and non-fiction both…

    Donald- Thank you for your service also!

  31. Anon, it is a 100 passenger regional jet with 1 x 2 seating, and one of the people was in first class with him, in fact he was the first one to start acting up.

    I have the gentleman’s work contact information and I’m working with some other people to get in contact with him to get his statements on the record. but as OldNFO says, he knows people who vouch for him and I’m of the feeling he is telling the truth, at least as much of it as he knows. This is a guy who works for NASA and is an ex-Navy diver and probably has a government clearance well above TC. You don’t get to where this guy is by making crap up.

  32. 1. Anon. Not without a name behind the words. 😉

    2. At the *very least*, the AJC left out the mens’ background. Given all the rest of the ruckuss, it’s almost certain they were fairly traditional Islamic in appearance – whether what happened after was as described or simply a misunderstanding, it’s unlikely in this present day that any other group would have caused *that* big of a firestorm on the plane.

    Hence, we can be almost certain at the outset that the AJC is leaving out some politically sensitive information, probably for the benefit of us poor rubes in flyover country. Because they left out that basic detail, I don’t trust their version… it’s too obviously “sanitized” as RWL said.

    On the other hand, because of some of the details in the other two versions (the “watching a porno they taped” with the interpretation feels over the top), I’m cautious about accepting them at face value – but our gracious host’s personally vouching for the gentleman giving it throws a lot more weight to that side for me.

    OldNFO – thank you for acting as an intermediary to get the whole story out, whatever it is.

  33. News media reported a glitch in the computers for air traffic control in and out of ATL, causing delays over the entire southeastern section.
    This is a fact, as we had friends traveling to Colorado through ATL at this time. Now we know the truth.

    Why is the news media not covering “the rest of the story”. Where is Paul Harvey? HMMMMMMM

    My take, it will not be covered. The news media is not going to cover it, none of them. The “NEW” news media, all of them, are scared, literally scared, of the muslim. They are winning the war on terrorism, the muslim has terrorized the news media into extinction.

    The news media has not, recently, reported any of the facts about anything. We have elected the head muslim into the office of president, who is now controlling the entire USA with his finger by the red button.

    Thank God, I am old and hopefully will not see the total demise of the “Original” United States.

  34. I have forever heard those of us that call for help from GOD. Well, my comment….. as stated by the wisest of all. “God helps those that help themselves.”

    God has been taken out of the picture, thanks to our government, with one exception, the muslim.

    The time is running out to help ourselves and to save what our fathers, brothers, sisters, and wives have fought for. Just sitting, waiting, hoping and watching is causing the demise of our great nation.

    The next election will be too late. Start a recall of all elected officials immediately, its up to us.

  35. This story is complete BS. There is no way another flight crew was on that plane 5 minutes after the original crew left.

  36. This blog needs links to accounts by other passengers for verification. There are too many elements that seem far fetched.

  37. Saw the first two stories already. Same “leaving out data” problem as the AJC, but both seem very cursory secondary sources anyhow.

    Snopes is new from a couple days ago, and doesn’t do anything but reference the AJC story we’ve already seen.

    In short.. no new information, just secondary recycling of what we have already.

    Show me an filmed interview of both witnesses. Show me a criminal background check on the men in question – or at least tell me their nationality (I’m guessing mostly Saudi). Better yet, show me a cell phone vid of the incident. If it was THAT outrageous, odds are decent someone recorded it.

    That would be new information that would actually help the case one way or the other.

    “full attire” would mean in this case traditional garb such as would arouse notice from others. As to why… *if* it was a dry run, Alan got the perfect answer two days ago.

    … and why are all the naysayers here too shy to use their names? Mr Gibson, you in the room? 🙂

  38. OLD NFO! Where you ever in VP-1? I was a TACCO there in the early 1990’s.
    Zack

  39. So, according to an article at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, here:
    http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/faa-to-investigate-cell-202143.html

    they looked into it, and the only thing that happened was that one single stewardess went berserk over a non-English-speaking passenger who was looking at pictures he’d taken on a digital camera. OMFGWTFHemightbeaMooslim!!!1Weizallgonnadieeeee!!!1!

    No pornography, no “multiple Muslims distracting stewardesses”, no “flight crew quit”. One tourist looking at his vacation photos, one paranoid stewardess. So, this whole blog post got started off with a bunch of bullshit made up by some fruitcake with an agenda.

    Same thing as last time one of these “events” hit the blogosphere — the “traveling Syrian musicians” one, where some moonbat female passenger with an overactive imagination thought that a bunch of guys going to a casino to play in a show must be hijackers because they dared to use the lavatories on the plane.

    I’m glad that my one run-in with a psycho stewardess happened long before 9/11. The pilots had left the “fasten seat belts” light on, since takeoff, for over two hours on a perfectly smooth four-hour flight (not a single bump of turbulence, nearly empty aircraft, no terrorists on board) and by that point my bladder was about to pop. Even after explaining to the nutjob stew that she had a choice between letting me go to the lavatory or letting me piss on the floor, she forced me to stay seated for another perfectly smooth 30 minutes before the jackasses in the cockpit finally got around to turning off the “fasten seat belts” sign. THEN, while I was in the bathroom, we FINALLY hit the turbulence that they’d been “protecting” us against for the last almost three hours. . . . Oh well, at least I’d mostly emptied my bladder by then. I managed not to piss all over the lav, to zip up, and to make it to my seat in time to avoid being slammed against the ceiling.

    But the PMSing stew was still glaring at me the entire rest of the flight. Post-9/11, she probably would have had the police on hand to arrest me after landing. That is, if there weren’t an air marshall on board to shoot me.

    Next time, I’ll just piss on the floor. Seems safer with loons like whoever wrote the original scaremail that started this blog article.

  40. Hey Alan,

    Nobody was let back onto the plane “after clearly violating federal law.” Read the AJC article that’s been linked to. It was all a bunch of overreaction by a single paranoid stewardess, followed by a lunatic rant written by “a friend of someone on the plane” who not only wasn’t there, but also has a pretty obvious agenda.

  41. Kind of makes me wonder how the AJC covered the Ft. Hood Terrorist Attack. I suppose it went something like this…

    Firearm Malfunction at Ft. Hood injures Many!

    An Army doctor was present when a firearm malfunctioned at Ft. Hood. Fortunately for the soldiers injured in the incident the Army doctor met current US Army diverse criteria.

  42. My comment still stands.

    Every time I fly I’m told that is a violation of federal law to fail to comply with crew member instructions. It is also a violation of federal law to operate electronic devices during take off.

    Both of those violations were specifically mentioned in the AJC article and the violations were so egregious that the plane returned to the gate.

    Personally, I think it’s silly that there have to be federal laws about any of this but there are and they have to be followed by everyone.

    The passenger was allowed back on the plane even after the plane returned to the gate because he was violating the law.

    The AJC also specifically mentions a new crew. If it was a single paranoid “stewardess” then why the crew change?

  43. WAC- Good question…

    Ror/Jenny/Fast- Working on it. As I’ve said, if I’m wrong I’ll admit it!

    Zack- I was at CPWP during that time…

    Etaoin- Yes there are plenty of PMSing FAs, but you are wrong and Alan is correct- Failure to obey flight crew or FA IS cause for arrest, especially if the acft cannot complete it’s scheduled flight or is delayed(which this one was).

    WarEagle- yep that new PC coverage…

    Alan- Agreed

  44. “If this guy was flying first class from OHIO, why did he have a layover in ATL? You’d think anyone that could fly first class could afford a nonstop flight.”

    With the economy the way it is who wouldn’t take a cheaper flight? AirTran has a bit of a reputation for being one of the more affordable airlines and you can’t get west from Ohio without changing planes, usually in Atlanta. You can check their website to verify that.

    In fact, here’s the URL : http://www.airtran.com/route-map/city_information.aspx

  45. If this was nothing more than someone refusing to hang up their phone, tell me this…WHY DID THE ORIGINAL CREW REFUSE TO OPERATE THE FLIGHT?

    The airline can’t refuse to transport them if they aren’t on a watch list and they cleared security. That doesn’t mean we’re not being tested. Mohammad Atta and his associates rode on numerous airlines prior to 9/11. Terrorists are doing it again.

    We’re going to politically correct ourself right into another 9/11.

  46. Farmgirl,

    I don’t follow your logic??

    Maybe the guy is a frequent flyer on AirTran and gets upgraded for free. Maybe he’s flying from Akron or Dayton, Ohio to Houston, I don’t think there’s any direct service.

    Muslims have this kind of super PC protection status and the airlines are scared of the negative publicity that would result from kicking them off a flight.

  47. Last Anonymous-

    The first part of my comment was a quote from another anonymous commenter.

    The part outside of the quotation marks is mine, and basically says “you can’t get there from here” as far as non-stop flight from Ohio to Houston on AirTran.

  48. Funny thing about the loud talking on the phone in Arabic…..

    I was in the Panera Bread Co. Restaurant in Cranberry Twp. Pa. for lunch on the Monday following Hasan’s terrorist attack.

    A Middle-Eastern man was speaking loudly in Arabic and getting up from his seat repeatedly for more than 45 minutes. I know because the talking disturbed me while I was trying to work and waiting for my lunch meeting.

    The thought crossed my mind at the time that this might be some sort of probing to see what the reaction would be from Americans since it was just after Hasan’s actions.

    I would be interested to hear if anyone else around the country had a similar experience.

    Patriots, it soon may be time to be ready to act at a moment’s notice to threats to your safety and the safety of those around you (preferably with a legal fire arm being carried legally on your person)

    In fact,”personal jihad” has already killed many in America…see below for a concise recap.

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/hit-and-run-jihad-comes-to-america/

  49. Just a quick update- Talked to one of the media folks today, they have spoken with the Chaplain and calls him a credible witness, and have a call in to the originator of the email, in addition they are trying to get an interview with AirTran on how a ‘spare’ crew was ready that quickly and why if this was a simple cell phone issue, was the crew replaced.

    More as I find it out.

  50. Listen live to Gill on WLAC internet radio . . .he will interview two witnesses this morning. Via GillReport.com

    “The media reports about an incident aboard an AirTran flight from Atlanta to Houston on November 17 sound pretty innocent. CLICK HERE. At least until you get the rest of the story and learn that the “group” on the plane that were so disruptive were Muslim men! CLICK HERE.

    And another passenger confirms the details of the seeming effort to test the defenses of the flight crew. CLICK HERE. We will talk to Dr. Keith Robinson, one of the passengers on the AirTran flight, on the Steve Gill Show TODAY! Here is more about Keith. CLICK HERE.

  51. Old NFO,

    I took the liberty to forward the account of this incident to several of my favorite radio talkshow hosts.

    Our local radio host, whose show is also on XM 165, regularly discusses probing and jihad-inspired incidents. He was just on the air saying that he received the account, but that he would like to confirm the story.

    Do you think the ex-Navy diver would contact him or, if he is not inclined to, would you contact the talkshow host so that he can verify the source? I’m sure he will discuss the story on the air if he can confirm the facts.

    His email address is [email protected].

    Thanks from Cranberry Twp, Pa.

  52. I was once traveling from KC to NYC. I got routed through Atlanta. That was Delta as I remember. I’ve never been on AirTrans. Some airlines schedule all flights through their hubs and unless you’re going to the hub, you probably won’t get a direct flight to your destination. Example: AA and Dallas/FtW.

    I flew AA from KC to Denver once. Yep, I was routed through Dallas both directions.

    WV: wings
    Really! No BS!

  53. I would like to see Rush, Beck, etc. pick this up and call for a boycott of Airtrans and any other airline that puts profits and political correctness ahead of the safety of their passengers. When their employess, who are the “experts” we are supposed to listen to in matters of safety, will not continue the flight, no passnger should be forced to either! If we have to put some airline out of business until the get the message so be it!

  54. My wife and I are boarding a plane Friday evening from Houston to Ft. Myers to visit with our kids and grandkids. I ALWAYS sit in the very back of the plane for these reasons. I for one will not for one moment sit and be quiet if their is even an inkling of this stuff going on. I always have my eyes out for them. The war is at home, in our backyards, not overseas, and it needs to be dealt with now.

  55. I was on that flight and there was only 1 guy, not 11 as was claimed in this fake article.

    Leave it to politics to get the facts spun to fit an agenda.

  56. Anonymous said…
    fake story is fake

    December 3, 2009 11:04 AM

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^and just as gratuitously, I say /this/ Anonymous is a lying troll.
    ——————————————————
    Linda said…
    Oh my, this is scary! I now have another reason not to fly. The terrorists have accomplished what they wanted…they have frozen the American way of travel.
    ——————————————————

    Linda, the terrorists have accomplished what they have because our government has tied the hands of good law abiding citizens and even others within government.

    It won’t be long before upstanding citizens like the two Texans or the cabin crew and flight crew will be prohibited from “interfering” or for “refusing to perform their assigned duties” because of political correctness (and the ever burgeoning centralization of authority.)

    It high time we told the idiots who want to tie our hands and take away our means of self defense, and control of our own lives to go urinate up a rope.

    I want my country back.

  57. I being an EX Airtran Flight Attendant…had a incident involving computer activity and video taping between muslims passengers during take-off and during cruising altidue while working an Airtran flight. Other passengers brought to our attention very disturbing behavior between 6 passengers located within rows of each in the main cabin. We watched as they all displayed the same programs on their computors and texted numbers on their cell phones. I had a difficult time getting them to turn off cameras while taking-off. It was all brought imediately to the attention of the captain and all crew memebers. We assured passengers we were aware of what was going on and had let the Captain know. After talking with the Captain and First Officer in charge I was told yes, this is ususl and they would inform the proper Authorities as we landed. We continued to monitor the passengers during the rest of flight. Once we landed and passengers deplaned Home Land security came aboard…I approached agent informing him of the usual activity that went on….within minutes I was informed he had no idea what I was talking about NOONE from Airtran had any contact with them concerning this, they were just doing a random check..noquestions were ever asked. The Captain in charge never called ahead or reported any of this. I was very upset because we are taught to watch for certain behavior and to report it imediately.
    Of course nothing was down…those passengers left the plan without ever being approached by anyone.
    I comfronted the Captain as to why he hadn’t reported anything. He was afraid of the possible lawsuit agaisnt the company for profiling. I was very upset. This was an incident that should have been reported imediately but ignored because Airtran is so afraid of a lawsuits. This Captain whom I flew with many times and always respected and thought was a good Captain chose to do nothing…he took it upon himself to make a call he was not qualified to make. This was just one of many incidents that have happened on an Airtran flight that was ignored because getting passengers from point a to point B is more important. We are taught to observe and report but yet they chose to do nothing if brought to their attention. 911 wasn’t a spur of the moment thing..it was planned and well rehearsed. Do we as flight crew members not have the obligation to bring unusal behavior as this to the attention of those who are trained to investigate it. We don’t have the right to make a dicison that could make another 911 possible. I made sure I never flew another flight with this Captain.

  58. The original e-mail has his name and claims he works at RAYTHEON. I have a friend who works for them and I was told no such person exists with that name at RAYTHEON.

    Hysteria is working overt time as well as the fear mongers who feed it.

  59. Too much anonymous “detail” being added on both sides.

    If you don’t stand behind your words enough to sign your name to them, why should anyone believe it?

  60. Anonymous said…

    If this guy was flying first class from OHIO, why did he have a layover in ATL? You’d think anyone that could fly first class could afford a nonstop flight.

    I am skeptical.
    December 2, 2009 8:08 AM
    —————–

    You don’t fly a lot do you? There are a ton of factors to lead him to fly non directly to his destination, price is just one of them. To get to Vegas from the west coast I had to fly through Salt Lake recently and it was mostly because of price and scheduling. Southwest had no deals for non stop flights and their schedule didn’t match mine very well so I flew Delta.

    I’m skeptical myself of this story but the ajc.com report really does leave a few things unanswered, like why would 12 or so folks get off the plane to take another flight, same with the flight crew?

  61. Do you have a Facebook account? I was seriously tempted to post the link on mine, but if you have one, it would be something important to share. I found out about your post via Twitter, so it is making the rounds.

  62. I personally received an email from an AJC staffer, and not only have they interviewed actual witnesses, they have now actually been in contact with Mr. Petruna and he refused to talk about it. The so-called chaplain hasn’t gotten back to them.

  63. As a senior Flight Attendant, I can assure you I’ve seen it all. Exactly 9 months and 11 days after 9/11, we had a similar incident. Five men were peppered throughout the cabin watching the crew very intently. We watched them right back. One of the “group” came toward me carrying a rolled up T-shirt (which I knew could conceal a weapon), I snatched it away and shook it open. The front of the shirt had an image of an explosion on it. He said he wanted to change into the shirt in the lav. I told him “NO”. He argued, I then told him he could only change if seated directly in front of me (I was standing) and knew he would never remove his shirt in front of me, a female American. One of these 5 men turned up on the “NO-Fly list”. As recently as 05/09, I found a man seated in the back of the plane WEARING a knife on his belt. I took it away from him and reported it to the Captain, then security protocols were followed – including his removal, a search of the aircraft, etc. He went through TSA screening, his folding steel knife was undetected by the TSA genius watching the monitor. BOTTOM LINE: Your air crew is highly trained, and if they need your help – they’ll ask you for it! Not only Federal Air Marshalls travel on random flights, but other ARMED law enforcement as well. You will never know who it is. They are trained to use deadly force if the crew needs that level of support. So stay in your seat and out of the line of fire UNLESS you absolutely know for certain the crew NEEDS YOUR help. Then be ready to give it all you’ve got. If a crew member asks for your help – just do it! Above all else, remember Flight Attendants are not on the plane to kiss your ass – we’re there to SAVE your ass! So don’t be afraid to fly, obviously this AirTran Flight Attendant knew her job and DID her job, and may have foiled an attempted disaster. Exceedingly well done!
    (My company’s security policy prevents me from giving my full name or associating myself with the company’s name when making any statement(s) to any press or media, so just call me a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

  64. An act of terrorism pure and simple. They should have been arrested, and eventually charged and tried. But what will happen? I predict a redux of the flying Imam case fiasco.

  65. http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/17508

    Security incident aboard AirTran Flight 297 suggests terror “Dry Run”

    By Doug Hagmann Thursday, December 3, 2009

    On November 17, an incident took place aboard AirTran Flight 297 scheduled to fly from Atlanta Hartsfield Airport to Houston that the media does not want to cover and everyone from the airline to the TSA and other government agencies want to keep very quiet.

  66. There’s far too much fabric here for this to be a doily.

  67. Oh my, this is scary! I now have another reason not to fly. The terrorists have accomplished what they wanted…they have frozen the American way of travel.

    Yes. They have created people who believe this stuff.

  68. Well, there are a number of links to various sites that are now saying ‘something’ happened… To the anon FAs, understand your points well. Personally, I believe the truth will come out next week, one way or the other. I appreciate that there are three sides to any argument, but please be civil. I have been ‘cautioned’ that I should turn off anon postings, or lock the thread; but I’m not going to do that as long as folks stay civil.

    I want to get to the bottom of this too!

  69. The fact is, the liberal media has always been cheering for the terrorists, this will be covered up, even though FACTS and WITNESSES back it up. Pure bias.

  70. Why does ANYONE think that is something appears on snopes.com, it’s the truth? Just sayin.

    I find this account very credible. Before you start bashing the post, do a little research about the ‘religion of peace’. Visit websites like Jihadwatch.org, read a book about islam – especially one written by someone who has left that ‘faith’.

    Once you understand what drives these people — you’ll understand what they want. Domination. They believe you should be a member of their religion — if you’re not, you should die or pay a tax and be a 2nd class citizen. That’s it!

    I agree with the earlier poster. I see any jihad hijinks goin’ on, I’m acting first and asking questions later.

    Be save, my friends.

  71. “Ever since 9/11, I’ve been firmly resolved to strike first (and take any lumps later) at the first sign of any Muslim bull**** ANYWHERE, not just on planes.”

    I know what you mean. Ever since the murder of Dr. King, I’ve been keeping an eye on white, southern men.

  72. @ Old NFO: you’re welcome.

    @ “Connect the dots 2006”: I am not bashing the post. One of my contributors has forwarded me the link and I fact check my stuff. So this was simple courtesy to let OldNFO know.
    And before you do your little spiel next time, check first who you’re talking to and if they aren’t eventually years ahead of you.

    Given time, you will eventually understand that the ONE thing that hurts the Counterjihad the MOST is half baked reporting like this. It discredits all the true and accurate stuff you put out. Do you understand that?

    That being said, it has happened to me in the past. Some learn, some don’t.

  73. To much meat on this bone for it not to be true.
    Don’t know about you all but a always carry a sockfull of nickels just in case.

  74. WAKE UP said…

    ” There’s far too much detail here for this to be a fabrication.”

    If there’s anything which sums up right-wing propaganda better, I haven’t heard it.

    Barry

  75. So this is where the stupid lives! Seriously, I can’t even believe that you people buy this nonsense. Get a grip, jerks.

  76. Point one: Most business flights into or out of Cleveland are coach w/ layovers. Point two: After what I just read having lived in Cleveland most my life this is a story I can believe given the detail along w/ the history of the aviation industry the past few years. Point three: Good for you, you’re fellow passengers and the original crew. There should be more of same imho. Plenty more actually. Hope the ‘standing ground’ continues or increases. Point four: Am so glad I don’t fly any longer. Thanks.

  77. I wonder how exactly this jerk knew that they taped the porno “the night before.” Don’t schools teach critical thinking anymore?

    Love, Jewelbomb

  78. Um, folks, this story strains credulity. A story that has a lot of detail could be true, or it could be fiction with a lot of detail. Like a Tom Clancy or Michael Crichton novel. Credible contemporary accounts suggest that this was a misunderstanding brought about by a language barrier. Occam’s razor backs up these accounts. If a bunch of Muslims went batty on a plane don’t you think we’d have stories from people who haven’t apparently done questionable research on Muslim practices? Ah, but anyway, go ahead and believe this craziness if you like, I guess it fits a preconceived notion. Just know that this is insane behavior, as insane as the imaginary Muslims in the story:).

  79. I once couldn’t get on a plane because my cock was too big to squeeze through the jetway door.

    True story.

  80. Anonymous said…

    To much meat on this bone for it not to be true.
    Don’t know about you all but a always carry a sockfull of nickels just in case.
    December 3, 2009 5:34 PM

    And if the TSA should stumble upon your loaded sock, you can use it as a bribe.

  81. Just another example of how Obama is ruining America.

    Freedom Lives!!!!

  82. What Canada is reporting:

    http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/17508

    Not quite the same story (nothing about two Texans), but still mentions the same incidents, and WHY they allowed them back on the plane. (Anyone remember US Air Flight 300 in 2006? It’s recorded in Wikipedia, and all over the net if you, not surprisingly, didn’t hear about it.) They have interviewed 7 people including 2 law officers who handled the after action reports. Sounds credible to me.

    I’ve never been to this blog before, but I appreciate the frankness.

  83. Too much hair on this liberal woman’s leg of a story for it not to be true.

  84. I’ve learned over the years you can get 100 “eyewitness” accounts and you’ll have 101 different stories.

    There will always be those who view something major as “nothing”, those who always view nothing as “something” and if you’re lucky, you’ll have a nice handful who saw it the way it really was.

    Now, it doesn’t matter if you believe there was one calm, lone man or nearly a dozen screaming banshees. I think one point that can be believed (fully, by all) is that the plane DID have to turn around because SOMEONE wasn’t following airline rules.

    You can blame that on him “not being English speaking” all you want. However, I just checked out AirTrans’ website- the rules are there. IF you can manage to order tickets, no matter what language you’re using, the rules are there, plain and simple.

    Sorry folks, but ignorance [to the rules] is no excuse.

    I’m so sick of the folks too, who think they understand the greater Muslim mindset because they know a calm, quiet, kind Muslim.

    For the record, I know a family of Muslims who have the above traits. I’m friends with them. Those individuals are good folks, but even they have warned that the fundamentalist Muslims have a very nasty agenda.

    Come to think of it, I’ve known some calm, quiet, mild Skinheads and KKK members. Hell, I’ve even met a Crip who’d make you think he was an altar boy. You can bet the farm on the crew being on “high alert” if a handful of those folks were scattered about a plane.

    In closing, if the *one* guy wasn’t looking for trouble, he would have shut off his electronic device (doesn’t matter if it was a phone, a camera, or an Easy Bake Oven) the plane would have taken off and this would be a non-issue. The fact remains that he did not do what he was supposed to, be it a “dry run” or just plain for his own shits & giggles- neither is very useful in fostering a feeling of love toward his religion/race/ethnicity.

  85. From an Old P-3 Pilot…..

    THE PROPER COURSE OF ACTION …..

    KILL THEM UNTIL THEY QUIT…..

    IF WE HAVE TO KILL ALL OF

    THEM…..

    SO BE IT.

  86. Wow I just thought the TSA reaction was Interesting and Informative. The comment chain on this post is positively enlightening.

    Thanks again NFO for the post .

  87. Haven’t you dumbfucks ever heard of Snopes? It’s called a customer service issue. No federal laws were broken. Now hurry up and get to one of your poorly attended teabagger parties. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

  88. I can’t find a link on Gill’s radio website to his 12/3/09 interview with the chaplain. If anyone can provide it, please post.
    http://www.gillreport.com/
    =============
    In choosing between an intricate hoax, and typical government and “free” press shenanigans, I take the latter. We’ve got plenty of recent proof of their complicity in Big Lies: Global warming, Religion of Peace, Ft. Hood, “man-caused disaster”, the stimulus, Cap & Trade, Obamacare….

    A good friend is an air marshal. He says that under Napolitano they are not getting as much info as they used to. At what point do we say these people are not friends?

  89. Yeah, this has the ring of truth to it, because if I were doing a dry run for a hijacking, the VERY FIRST THING I’d want to do would be to draw attention to myself by watching porn.

  90. This story is not true. After looking up the flight, it was delayed several hours. There were no 2 men that tried helping the stewardess’ and these same men did not get off the plane. No such porno was found and if you read the link from the passenger that was in the back with these guys, she said that they were snapping pictures and would not sit down and buckle up. No 2 guys escorted the gentlemen off as well as no 3 TSA agents or 4 cops came onto the plane. This story is exaggerated and can apparently tell he wasnt on the plane cause he has 90% of the story wrong. The only true parts are of that in the news. Some people try to be heros when the werent even on the flight.

  91. @jtheotherjimmyolson: Infidel dog! Texans don’t wear codpieces! Their balls are pure iron even without protection. You WILL come to understand this or you WILL be thrown off this blog!

  92. I’m a PanAm purser who worked when the Algerians were trying to get their freedom from France. If you don’t know your history, look it up. This is nothing new. What made 9/11 possible was American Airlines’ practice of putting rats on the plane to pick fights with the crew, and write up any FA’s who responded. The result was crews who didn’t dare respond lest they lose their livelihoods.

    There are bad guys everywhere; Mike Huckabee enabled one who took out four of our best last week. Be vigilant. If you get xenophobic or afraid, they win. I’m still in a sector of transportation, and they’ll take us out before they’ll repeat an airplane gig. Deja vu etc. My biggest fear is an armed paranoid whackadoodle opening up when I’m around, or some dittohead incensed by the hatemongers into some act against the emorphous Liberal Conspiracy.

    Yikes. Get a job pay your taxes and thank a veteran for your freedom. I’m a union worker who pays taxes every two weeks to provide the cash flow that keeps this great country of ours going. Buy American and boycott Walmart. One thing I DO resent is the extra $1200 a year I pay in medical premiums to care for the people Walmart, one of the richest companies in the world, who refuses to provide benefits for the people who make them rich.

  93. Seems like a lot of people are referring me to the Snopes page- Well, I checked that before I posted the original post. There was NOTHING on there, then it was about 1/4 page, pointing to the AJC article, and look at it now. I also find it interesting that the page is located not under travel, but under politics/religion… As of today, I do not have any further ‘proof’ for or against, nor to my knowledge has anyone else definitely provided anything. If nothing comes of some other people’s research, I will admit I was wrong in a new post, just as I said I would.

  94. I see the pantswetter brigade is out in full force. Big tough Marines and stout Midwesterners, all afraid of a man in a headdress and a fake e-mail.

  95. OldNFO – Fascinating how you’ve been *leading* Snopes this whole time on new information and confirmation status updates – it’s been interesting seeing the Snopes page grow in real time.

    Thanks again for staying on it. 🙂

  96. Still not enough doubt in the story to make some individuals to think without hate or bias.

  97. Guys in groups sometimes act like assholes even if they’re not of European descent. But it stretches credulity a bit to think that guys who are planning on hijacking a plane would behave this way before the plane even takes off. The author of this post is lying.

  98. “common sense said…

    Haven’t you dumbfucks ever heard of Snopes? It’s called a customer service issue. No federal laws were broken. Now hurry up and get to one of your poorly attended teabagger parties. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.”

    Ah, reasoned discourse at its finest. Have you actually read the Snopes article? It and the AJC article clearly state that A) there was a 2 1/2 hour delay, B) At least a dozen passangers refused to continuing if the men in question were allowed back on, and C) A new flight crew was brought in. If it was a ‘customer service issue’ that was ‘no big deal,’ then why such a long delay? And why did the original crew refuse to continue? And why did a dozen passengers insist on taking a later flight?

  99. TCK: No one but the original storyteller — whose disinclination to come out from under his rock and defend his unseconded-by-a-single-person statements is exceptionally telling — is claiming the crew “refused to fly.”

    The original crew was replaced by another crew. Can you think of any reason for this other than mass insubordination of the crew?

    I can.

  100. Wait, a guy in first class knew that 9 others “peppered themselves throughout the plane, all the way to the back”? That’s some eyesight – must’ve turned around like a three-year-old in his seat and looked over the back. Doubtful, very doubtful.

    Plus the fact that the ONLY person giving this version is an “ex-navy diver” now with a “government” job? Smacks of mall ninja and-or a girlfriend in the niagara falls area. My experience is that the hamfisters in mom’s basement are typically the ones with this Tom Clancy-like persona they invent for themselves. I, and others, call them “proud members of the 82nd Chairborne.”]

  101. Now I don’t know the party who sent out the email so I cannot vouch in any way for the factual/nonfactual basis of it . However I do know NFO and respect him and his opinion on the matter.

    One poster said :” Plus the fact that the ONLY person giving this version is an “ex-navy diver” now with a “government” job? Smacks of mall ninja and-or a girlfriend in the niagara falls area. My experience is that the hamfisters in mom’s basement are typically the ones with this Tom Clancy-like persona they invent for themselves. I, and others, call them “proud members of the 82nd Chairborne.”]” while “bravely” posting under Anonymous. Pot meet Kettle .

  102. TCK @ 12:41 1.) The aircrew probably timed out and had to be replaced. 2.) long delays are the rule not the exception,It takes a lot of red tape to keep you safe. 3.)I’m not surprised people wanted to get off I might too if I was a sniveling coward afraid of any brown person who “didn’t belong here.”Do you think the airlines keep spare skilled people hanging around the airport to take care of any random screw-up. The fares you pay don’t cover that shit.

  103. Am I the only person that thinks folks like “theotherjimmyolson” would be the first ones jumping up and down, hollering “Why didn’t someone do something about this before it happened? The warning signs were there and nobody did anything!?” should something happen and it was one of his family members that was involved?

  104. One thing’s for sure snigg .you are probably the only who has any idea what you are trying to say.How long have you known me? I am here on this thread for the same reason people slow down and ogle a car wreck on the freeway.The really sad thing is that this sorry collection of conspiracy theorists desperately clutching at any fragment of mis-information to validate their own delusions has the same power at the ballot box as their sane well informed countrymen If you step away from the keyboard and take a look around you will see the whole free world is laughing.

  105. ” If you step away from the keyboard and take a look around you will see the whole free world is laughing.”

    I for one can’t blame them , after all look at the clowns we elected .

  106. That’s it! From now on I will be carrying a big bag of Pork Rinds when I travel. If anyone starts making “gun jestures”, I’ll be sure to show them the harmless jestures a southern American can give right back.

  107. Hrmm. if true*, that’s pretty damning.

    OldNFO, can your acquaintance provide a boarding pass or other documentation?

    ————
    * yes, papers get an “if true” these days as well unfortunately.

  108. Folks, the email is obviously fake. If the story went down as the email said, you would not be hearing the account from a single passenger via email. You would be hearing dozens of passengers interviewed on the local news.

    Also y’all are having some trouble with risk assessment. You are acting like this is an ever present danger and you must drive to avoid this risk. It’s not. Making bad decsions about risk is a common human problem. As a species we fear a risk that is highly improbable if it’s scary enough and if we can easily imagine it, we can easily fear it. This is why no one truly fears high cholesterol like they can fear dying in an airplane. Everyone reading this blog is much, much more likely to die by car crash or by drowning than dying in a terrorist act or the even-less likely terrorist act on an airplane.

    There are something like 850,000 flights every month that’s 10 million a year. How many terrorist acts on a plane occurred in the last five years? I can’t think of any so that’s something like 0 for 50 million. The last event I can think of was Richard Reid’s flight which resulted in zero deaths. So it’s been over 8 full years since someone died in a terrorist attack in an aircraft. So even if go back to 9/11/01, the numbers are something like 4 out of 80 million flights. How many passengers would 80 million flights have? 5 Billion? 8 Billion?

  109. Finally, finally, A critical thinker. thank you Kevin.I apologize to all for my previous snarky remarks.Please read Kevin’s post again, and ask yourself why you were ready to accept this story festooned as it was with big red flags shouting liar,liar,liar.Peace

  110. Now let’s take a look at Tedd’s email. It should have been obvious from the beginning that several things don’t add up.

    1. He claims he was in first class, but can describe events that happened at the rear of the plane. How? Supersonic Hearing? Bionic Vision? Did he interview everyone on the plane?

    2. He claims two separate passengers were showing video of “a porno” on a camcorder and talking loudly about it. Again, he knows this how? Also has this ever happened on an airplane? Anywhere? We are suppossed to think this is a dry run for a real terrorist attack. So the dry run involved drawing the most attention you can in most offensive way possible.

    3. He claims the men shot the footage of this porno themselves and that it took place the night before? How would he know this? Where these men speaking English while all the others spoke Arabic?

    4 He claims all 11 men started to walk around at the same time. Again this is behavior that would attract the attention of every passenger on the flight.

    The email then devolves into a sub-Chuck Norris fantasy. Which is really funny when he stands up to the big, bad stewardess with :
    I am a grown man who bought this ticket, who’s time is mine

  111. I just read on Malkin’s blogg that Tedd Petrunas can’t comment officially on the story because he’s covert CIA and doesn’t want to blow is cover. He was traveling under an alias at the time.

    THE EMAIL STORY IS REAL. AMERICANS NEED TO WAKE UP NOW!

  112. Try to understand, on this blog you are not talking to each other, you are talking to the world.Everyone now knows that you were taken in by this Chuck Norris wannabe.Man up! or forever be known as, “oh ya that’s the one who was made a fool of by the manly man “Teddy from Texas” Peace.

  113. It is illegal under federal law to refuse the order of flight crew. That alone should have precipitated an arrest of the two cell phone communicators, and in fact many otherwise unremarkable US Citizens have found themselves in serious legal trouble (and banished forever from flying) for doing exactly that. So the fact that TSA would “clear them” and put them back on the plane is a clear concession on the part of our US Government to political correctness, even though it is a patent disregard of federal law (from FAA, a different federal agency).
    The recent “Flying Imam” law suit that found (with financial settlements) for the muslim plaintiffs who were removed from a flight within the last couple of years for praying too visibly at the gate and then on board (and freaking everyone out) probably hasn’t helped.
    This story is eerily reminiscent of the NWA 327 episode of July, 2004, in which 13 Syrians openly flaunted flight crews’ demands to sit down by ricocheting from seat to seat and lav to lav throughout the flight and gesturing to each other with hand signals as if they were about to do something.
    What is more interesting for me (I am producing a full length feature movie about TSA) is the familiar response from our government. In the 2004 incident, TSA, and the Federal Air Marshals interviewed the Syrian band on arrival at LAX, and despite expired visas let them all go. Journalist Annie Jacobsen, who chronicled the whole thing on the internet, and then subsequently in a book, was vilified by many as an hysterical housewife. Even today, after congress has reviewed the case and the Office of Inspector General has produced a report that verified it, there are still polarized supportive and unsupportive camps for Ms. Jacobsen. In other words, serious reporters from mainstream media still are in denial that it even happened – in no small part because the government (at the time of the incident) went all out to deny it, and pinned the rap on “passenger hysteria.” Having reported the same thing, they were ‘enablers,” and cannot change position without looking like idiots and diminishing their stature.
    Also suspect is this administration’s recent experiment with denying access to the White House Press Room, in the case of Fox. Is this, then, the reason why Fox apparently downplayed the recent Air Tran incident? Certainly a fire breathing story about TSA’s ineptitude wouldn’t ingratiate them to Obama’s administration, would it? And since no one else seems to have reported this, one assumes that the Fox lesson wasn’t wasted on them either.
    In the NWA 327 case, Ms. Jacobsen had no help from the airline at tracking down passenger names, and at the time everybody was too rattled to trade business cards. No doubt this situation’s the same.
    TSA’s security policies are mostly about deterrence as opposed to interception and enforcement, which is the province of the FBI and local law enforcement respectively. TSA’s badges were explicitly designed to instill respect and trust from passengers, but have no legal heft at all, and have been the brunt of much criticism. They are, in fact, legal examples of impersonation of federal law enforcement officers, and a hundred years ago the average westerner would have labeled them for what they are: tinhorns.
    The good news: I guess we still have at least two out of one hundred citizens we can count on in a fight, as well, apparently, as the entire state of Texas.
    The bad news: Our government is corrupt to the core. And I would actually rather sit on my next Air Tran flight opposite one of the “Air Tran Eleven” than most members of congress and every member of TSA’s upper management. We have to do something about it. it’s a situation a lot scarier than flying.

    Fred G.

  114. theotherjimmyolson and others ,

    Without getting my tinfoil beanie cinched too tight , it is apparent to me that SOMETHING beyond the official for press story happened here .
    Air Tran responded making small of the incident here http://www.insideairtran.com/?p=2200

    Now to me this response clears up some points , and raises questions .
    for instance:

    It would seem to me that misbehaving in any manner that delayed a takeoff to the point the jet had to be pushed back inn , and passenger (s) removed would rise to the level of criminal charges . Yet no charges seem to be forthcoming . In fact TSA seems to be saying that this is some sort of customer service issue .

    Once pushed back inn.. The ENTIRE original crew was replaced , either by fiat or by refusing to fly with the trouble making passengers on board . Air Trans is playing this close to the vest for some reason , tho in all honesty it may be fear of a lawsuit by the disruptive passengers ( it has happened before ) .
    IMHO every account of this that i have seen has a ” spin ” attached either towards the ” all dusky people are terrorists and you should panic now to save time ” or towards the ” all dusky people are our friends in pc heaven and you should never worry ” camps .

    This may or may not have been a ” dry run ” , however if it was we need to remember that its still not illegal to walk down a street , or take a flight . Its also not illegal to take notice of unusual behavior that can indicate an ill intent ( such as communicating in a language not understood by most present , and I dont just mean Arabic, since Norwegian , German , or Latin would suffice as well ).

    If it was a ” dry run ” then fine. If it was a ” cultural misunderstanding ” then fine . I would still like to know how passenger(s) can be this disruptive and not be charged with a crime , and I also would like to know why the entire flight crew was replaced at this specific time .

    I will say again that I know NFO and respect him and his opinions. He did not post this for , nor did he foresee the ” shitstorm ” this post would create . For all you sending him hate mail … Knock it off. It ill becomes the side you want to argue . The man got some information , and he posted on it with good faith . He is not a political reporter , he is not a paid investigator , he is a man who thought the information was worthwhile , and passed it on . My original response still stands that it is interesting . If your press … DO YOUR OWN DAMMED LEGWORK . if your like me and a nobody , well start a blog to disagree . Leave the mans email alone .

    Tho I disagree with theotherjimmyolson ‘s take on much of this I do respect him since he does not hide under ” somedude ” … ohh.. damn … read that Anon postings .

  115. Also suspect is this administration’s recent experiment with denying access to the White House Press Room, in the case of Fox. Is this, then, the reason why Fox apparently downplayed the recent Air Tran incident? Certainly a fire breathing story about TSA’s ineptitude wouldn’t ingratiate them to Obama’s administration, would it? And since no one else seems to have reported this, one assumes that the Fox lesson wasn’t wasted on them either.

    Hi, I am on this thread trying to be fair, and I was going to say the above is delusional. But after googling, I see the facts did not get out and the above is taken as the truth. Fox News has and always had access to White House press room. That was not even what the recent controversy was about. The truth was Ken Feinberg did an off-camera interview with several reporters print and broadcast including Fox News. Afterwards, several of the broadcast networks asked if they could do an on camera interview the next day covering the same material, so they would have footage of his remarks. Fox was not one of the networks that asked. However, the other networks, noticed Fox wasn’t there and said they should be included. It was not an effort to ban Fox “from the press room” and it wasn’t even an effort from preventing access to this official, BECAUSE FOX was allowed to interview him already.
    So there’s no “FOX LESSON” to be learned and the reason the media didn’t report this is because the email that came out a week after the event is FAKE and the actual passengers on the plane contradict virtually every detail in the email

  116. Farm Dad, loosen your tinfoil hat. Perhaps AirTran is making SMALL of something that already blown out of proportion. That is the thing that happening was a molehill, while the fake email claimed it was a mountain.

    In answer to your questions. Perhaps they were not charged with anything illegal, because it was determined that the whole thing was a misunderstanding due to the language barrier. This is speculation, but it could be the man was saying something like, “I’m looking at photos on my camera. It’s not a cell phone.”
    Also according the AJC when they looked into this, the man who originally caused the disturbance DID not return to the plane he and the interpreter took a later flight. The 11 members of the group who were not disturbing anyone got off the plane and then got back on.

    I suspect the ENTIRE flight crew was replaced because the two hour + delay would have pushed them past the federally mandated flight time rules. If they had already flown the first leg of a round trip, they may have been more than half way through their work day. This is routine.

    AirTran’s response to me seems to sufficient. They refute virtually all of the alarming details from the email. Once those are gone, the suspiciousness disappears and why the flight crew was changed is no longer fishy-sounding. They also stick to the facts of what happened, not motives, opinions or other messier areas of the truth.

  117. Thanks KevinNYC. This is a perfect example of that old saw ” a lie can get halfway around the world before the truth can get it’s boots on”. It simply takes time to gather the facts and double check them.

  118. Kevin:

    While I think it’s both interesting (and depressing) to learn that there may be yet another permutation on the Fox story, as you pointed out in your post – the truth did not get out. Why is it implausible then that “the Fox lesson” couldn’t have been learned, even if Obama didn’t intend it? It wouldn’t be the first example of unintended consequences from the activity or inactivity of this administration, which, according to the info you just referred me to, seemed perfectly happy with the inference of its “heavy handed” message, even if it didn’t initially mean to imply it.

    But back to the subject at hand – something’s plenty fishy here. First of all, let’s be clear about what has been happening to our fleet. Besides Northwest flight 327 in July of ’04, there were literally dozens of similar “probes” by various international groups in the period ’03-’05. In the course of researching my documentary I have learned of these from various sources, but they include several Federal Air Marshals, commercial pilots, Annie Jacobsen, The Washington Times, and various others. Things that happened in that time frame were either not reported at all (FAMs director T. Quinn neglected to report them to the House Judiciary Committee until he got caught) or else the attention they got in mainstream press was so ephemeral that it never developed any steam. And since it didn’t benefit our congress to discuss all this with us (or to spend too much time following up with TSA or FAMS,) they simply dropped the subject.

    After ’06 time frame, there was what one described as a period of disquieting inactivity while certain folks waited for the other shoe to drop. (911 was preceded by 33 dry runs and/or probes). What is reported to have happened on 11/17/09 is ACTUALLY VERY COMMON! There are a variety of potential motives for this behavior, although too be perfectly honest, until the next attack happens and we can investigate retrospectively the modus operandi of the practice phase, we probably won’t know. But for the posts that said that this makes no sense, let me just say that it does….they’re trying to find out how far they can push things with crew, passengers, TSA, etc. etc. It would appear that they’ve begun again.

    As for the crew change…they could have “timed out” on their duty time, but from the pilots I have talked to at other airlines they doubt this, given the times involved and the short length of the intended trip. You are right, of course, this can be fairly common, but what does not make sense is that the backup crew would have been ready when they were.

    So at the end of the day, we’re all operating in a cloud of partial information, half truths, and lying (someone’s not telling the truth, for sure.) I read a comment from the host of a DHS blog this morning that was positively “Mr. Rogers:” “Well everybody’s entitled to their opinion, and we don’t really know who’s right?” Really??? Aren’t we paying you jerks enough to get interested in this? Maybe I know too much about TSA, but it all sounds very realistic.

    Fred G.

  119. Better read the account from the Chaplain. Are you all going to call him a liar as well?. Read his 6 page, detailed account of this flight as he witnessed it at Snopes.

  120. WTF was “TSA” thinking?

    the diver and his back-up should have chucked those clowns of the aircraft w/o benefit of a ladder.

    what asshat made the call to let terorists back on the plane?

    crazy days we live in.

  121. There are a couple of ‘interesting’ things that both AJC and AirTran’s statements do and don’t say. It does appear Tedd was not on the plane, but that STILL does not explain what the Chaplain wrote of what he saw, nor is there any explanation of why the crew change. I think there is more information yet to come out, and that should happen early next week. As I’ve said all along, if I’m wrong, I will admit it.

  122. Frankly, if I’m feeling charitable I think the chaplain has an inflated sense of self-importance,a deep belief in magical thinking and a highly excitable imagination. If I was feeling not-so chartitable, I would say he sounds like a nut.

    Quite simply I find his story incredible. I don’t think he’s a reliable witness. He was not an eyewitness to the incident and what he saying is not backed up by people who were actually on the plane. He was there for the second leg of the flight and read his story again. Take away the purple prose and you are left with an average plane flight.

  123. NFO, neither of these guys were even on the plane. The longer you wait to issue a retraction, the more dishonorable you appear. Hanging on to “but the crew wouldn’t fly” is unbelievably thin. No one, absolutely no one, has backed up “Tedd” (love that foolish double D) that the crew refused to fly, and you’ve been given the most likely explanation, that the crew timed out.

    Your original post stood by a guy who has proven to be a stone liar about even the most basic facts. He’s also been shown to be emotionally unstable, as anyone who would dream up that bad B-movie cowboy sequence and pretend he’d starred in it quite obviously is. Be a man and admit you were wrong. Have some integrity here — your own credibility is now on the line.

  124. I am NOT prepared to retract this just yet, and I’m disappointed that OldNFO would as well. I have in fact been in contact with Mr Petruna and he says he has the boarding pass to prove he WAS on the flight. I’m still working to verify all of this, but the things we DO know are these:

    an incident occurred serious enough to cause the plane to return to the terminal.
    There are now a minimum of two independent reports of problems with middle easterners who had been escorted off the plane and then back on again.

  125. Anonymous @ 1112 – I know it’s difficult for one of your limited intellect, but TRY to keep up – you’re about 24 hours behind the curve ………………. maybe if your head wasn’t so firmly planted up your butt, you’d realize that ……………….. also, the “Anonymous” postings are getting awfully tiresome – personally, I’ve neither the time or patience to deal with such as yourself who don’t have the intestinal fortitude to “own” what you’re SO willing to spout from the safety of your keyboard ………………

    Semper Fi’ Old NFO
    Dm

  126. I have to just laugh at those who took AJC to task. I hope your arm doesn’t hurt from pating your own back. I bet you had a GWB banner flying through your mind – MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! Things like this are easily spread by people who have a certain mind set.

  127. I wonder if folks who passed it along via their own blogs had the back bone to post a retraction. I doubt it.

  128. Doesn’t everyone have the safety of their own keyboard? So, if I make up a name like Well Seasoned Fool or Gia Spot etc. I will suddenly have credibility?

  129. Anon @ 8:33 It’s a little more complicated than that. This is a small blog, part of a wider community of small blogs made up of mostly like minded people.Most of these people blogging under “handles” know each other through a history of talking to each other.Some of them know each other in the non-virtual world.I got here by link from balloon juice, hoping to educate myself about the issue. I knew up front that the denizens of this blog were my political opposites, nevertheless I wished a dialogue. Part of establishing a dialogue is creating an identity.It was not my intention (sp.)to dive bomb in here drop a gratuitous insult then fly off. Of course, there is always the chance that some insecure whack job with a 357 and a short fuse will track me down and blow me away. So,,I’m 69 y/o.I’ll take my chances in order to educate myself.

  130. In a Sue Happy Environment it was a set up these perps were looking for a Pheonix Imams Redux.

    The Airline is not commenting on the MD Anderson Hospital Chaplain or the CEO in the third row, tracked down by the Murietta GA Paper. AirTran are referring everthing to the “Outed” as a liar who was never on board, Mr. Petruna says he has his Boarding pass.

    It seems from the CEO’s third row corroboration … that

    1) there was some kind of major Chaos on board
    2) there was belligerent coordination among the 11 or 13 Arabic Speakers on the plane
    3) it was bad enough the crew returned the plane to the terminal and some of the flight crew got off in tears
    4) AirTrans has been in full on Damage control from day one for their airline and not that interested in the passengers or flying public. They are naming names and calling names
    “AirTran Airways strictly prohibits discrimination of any kind. Even still, to my knowledge, the religious belief of the passengers in question is not known.

    Please reference the following page for more information:
    “http://www.insideairtran.com/?cat=21” “

    5) If you have a group of friends and don’t want stuff out there … don’t tell them. There is no such thing as a secret. Mr. Petruna is now well known.

    6) I advise all family friends and business associates to do the same as Mr. Petruna, the Crew and other 11 passengers in a similar situation. Even if it requires starting your own rucus with the offenders to get the plane to turn back to the terminal.

  131. But it really isn’t complicated. Oft times these things are reposted and a second on Google brings you to several sources, this being one. The number of people sharing this just invites others.

    As far as people here being like minded…………… well that’s obvious given how quickly and easily this was taken as fact.

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  137. This si one scary story. I will now think about this everytime I get on a plane. I guess that is what terrorists want – right? Guess who won this one.

  138. i never liked flying very much and think it is true what they say. Those idiots were allowed to get back on the plane?????

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  157. I don’t understand why the text refers to the men as muslims?! Did somebody ask them what religion they are? Just because they talked in a language other than english doesn’t mean they are muslim…The text sounds also like to be muslim is something bad in general! Their behavior was in any way not acceptable doesn’t matter what relgions the person has.

  158. This story is complete BS. There is no way another flight crew was on that plane 5 minutes after the original crew left.

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