This one is kinda long- Three things in this post- DADT, ROK/NK situation, and Women/medical issues on subs…
First, WHY is the administration rushing to repeal DADT? The Pentagon has not finished the review and comment period, nor have the finished their report to the administration (it’s due after Christmas); but today we hear there are bills in both the House and the Senate the administration wants votes on by next week… What happened to ‘orderly’ processes? Where are these bills, so we can read them??? Anybody??? (crickets…)
ROK/NK- I “think” this one is about to get out of hand…
As of today, there are FOUR Sang-O NK subs at sea and unlocated, and ROK has upped their DEFCON to near war footing…
From STRATFOR- North Korean Minister of the People’s Armed Forces, Vice Marshal Kim Yong Chun, issued a statement May 22 via official media condemning South Korea’s refusal to allow a team of North Korean inspectors to visit South Korea to assess the evidence Seoul prepared during the investigation of the March 26 sinking of the navy corvette ChonAn. Kim, also a vice chairman of the National Defense Commission (NDC), the center of political power in North Korea, demanded Seoul allow the NDC team to visit, citing Chapter 2, Article 10 of the 1992 Basic Agreement between Seoul and Pyongyang, which states, “South and North Korea shall resolve peacefully, through dialogue and negotiation, any differences of views and disputes arising between them.” North Korea has strongly denied any involvement in the sinking, becoming even more vociferous as the May 20 announcement of the multinational team’s investigation neared. During a May 3-7 visit to Beijing by North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, North Korean officials told the Chinese that Pyongyang was not responsible for the incident, though later Chinese reports suggested that Kim Jong Il himself had remained silent on the issue. While it may seem minor, this point allows North Korea some leeway in dealing with the issue and with its ally, China, as whatever path North Korea takes, Kim’s silence means that he did not directly lie to the Chinese president. On May 14, North Korean media announced that NDC member and First Vice Minister of the People’s Armed Forces Kim Il Chol was relieved of all his posts a day earlier due to his “advanced age of 80.” Four days later, North Korean state media announced that the Supreme People’s Assembly (SPA) would hold another session on June 7.
Note: These two things are particularly interesting in light of the silence of KIJ… Chol could be the scapegoat that is getting ready to be ‘sacrificed’ for the common good… I still think this one has the possibility of going to a shooting war if things get any further out of hand. KIJ is NOT the most stable individual anyway, and the ROKs have upgraded their DEFCON (not to full war footing, but closer than normal). And lastly, women on subs and the potential health risks… I wrote about this before, but again, why the rush?
Here is an article from the Center for Military Readiness, May 13, 2010
Undersea Medicine Expert Warns of Health, Operational Problems
The push to assign women to submarines began in September, 2009, when Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus and Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead started promoting the idea as if women’s career opportunities were the only consideration. The Center for Military Readiness issued an immediate news release, drawing attention to irresolvable problems with the program-none of which had nothing to do with the abilities of female officers or sailors. In addition to habitability concerns in confined submarine spaces, health risks unique to women could threaten lives as well as operational efficiency. Navy officials diverted attention from that inconvenient information, disregarding overwhelming opposition within the submarine community. Secretary Mabus and Admiral Roughead demonstrated their lack of personal experience with submarines by equating them with larger surface vessels that operate in fresh air, not under the sea. In this sealed environment, as confining and dangerous as outer space, man-made air must be produced to preserve the life, health, and efficiency of the submarine crew. Unlike the atmospheric air on surface ships, man-made air has many problems in its production and will never be equivalent to the natural product. On February 19 the Secretary of Defense sent formal notice to Congress, claiming in a three-paragraph letter that even though assignment of women to submarines was considered “cost prohibitive” in 1994, the Department of the Navy has “recently concluded a further review of this matter and has determined it is ready to implement policy changes to support a phased approach to the assignment of women to submarines.” On the contrary, as the Washington Times reported on April 5, there has been no careful study and there is no objective plan to deal with medical concerns that are unique to women in the submarine environment. Women in Submarines Face Health Issues On April 29 Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus and Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead moved ahead with their announced plans to assign female sailors to submarines. Congress accepted the move passively-failing to fulfill oversight responsibilities by asking questions about issues of critical importance to the submarine community. Much to the alarm of submariners, their families, and supporters, Navy officials still have not addressed the health-related and operational concerns associated with this policy, many of which were discussed in the Navy’s own prior reports and responses to inquiries from the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Services (DACOWITS) in 2000-2001. On March 11, 2010, Rear Admiral Hugh Scott (MC) USN (Ret.) sent a detailed letter to the Secretaries of Defense and the Navy, Pentagon officials responsible for the submarine force, and the Chairmen and Ranking Members of the Senate and House Armed Services Committees. In his letter, Dr. Scott, an expert in the field of undersea medicine, discussed in detail a long list of irresolvable health risks associated with gender integration on submarines. For example: The primary mission of the SSBN force is the strategic defense of the U.S., it is not realistic to think that the integration of men and women at the height of their reproductive lives can be structured in a way that is conducive to good order and discipline while serving together in the forced intimacy of a submarine. Pregnancy is incompatible with submarine duty due to the uniqueness of the submarine environment and the operational mission(s) of the submarine (SSBN/SSN) Once a woman becomes pregnant she is lost to the command for 20 months. Vacancies on submarines would have disproportionate impact on other crewmembers. When young men and women live together in close quarters, sexual and romantic relationships inevitably ensue. Personnel complications would be worse on submarines. The surface Navy has a major problem with the occurrence of unintended pregnancies among women serving on Navy surface ships. According to Navy Times, (25 August, 2009) operational deferments for pregnancy increased from 1,770 to 3,125. These increases, described as 50% jump from June 2006 to August 2008, occurred despite the ongoing efforts of the Navy’s Sexual Health and Responsibility Program (SHARP) towards the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including HIV, and the prevention of unintended pregnancies. Abnormal pregnancy complications, such as ruptured ectopic pregnancy and hemorrhagic spontaneous abortion, require emergency surgery and blood replacement which are not available aboard a submarine. Due to the operational nature of the submarine mission, timely emergency mid-ocean evacuations would be unlikely. Surgery under such conditions could result in loss of reproductive capability. In the case of unintended pregnancies occurring just prior to or during a submarine deployment, prolonged exposure to chemical contaminants in the constantly recirculated air would pose a significant risk to the normal development and vitality of the unborn child. Increased levels of carbon dioxide, 10x normal; carbon monoxide from fires, cooking, oxidation of paint, etc, hydrocarbons are safe for adults but not for a developing embryo-fetus. Atmosphere control equipment cannot remove all of the contaminants. There have been no specific studies regarding the effectiveness of men and women serving together on a submarine. Ignoring sex differences doesn’t render them inconsequential, as the assignment of women to surface ships has and continues to demonstrate. There are those who believe that the sexes do not differ substantially in combat-relevant ways, other than in physical strength in some situations, and that any differences that do exist are a result of socialization that can be eliminated through education, training, and an attitude adjustment on the part of males. These theories have not been subjected to any Navy-sponsored rigorous evolutionary psychology research to determine the validity of those assumptions. Dr. Scott addressed his letter to the Chairmen and Ranking Members of the House and Senate Armed Services Committees, and to Rep. Roscoe Bartlett, author of legislation mandating prior notice to Congress before any action to assign women to submarines. Not a single member of Congress responded to Scott’s letter. Questions from CMR In the meantime, the Center for Military Readiness submitted the following questions to senior Pentagon and congressional leaders:
1. Given the extremely low retention rates of female nuclear trained female surface officers, how can the Navy justify habitability intrusions and compromises to accommodate female sailors on all types of submarines? (Normal career paths include smaller subs as well as larger ones.)
2. Given what is known about current non-deployment rates due to pregnancy among enlisted women as well as officers, what is the Navy’s estimate of comparable non-deployment rates of female officers and enlisted women on submarines? (Extensive programs to discourage Navy pregnancies have failed. According to Navy Times, rates have increased.)
3. How many mid-ocean evacuations are expected to occur on an annual basis and how will these evacuations be accomplished in remote areas; i.e., under the Polar icecap?
4. If a submarine CO is faced with the operational necessity to continue an undersea mission, despite high risks of birth defects for a newly-discovered embryonic “passenger,” what does the Navy expect the skipper to do?
5. How many women are likely to permanently lose reproductive capability due to botched undersea surgeries or worse-how many are expected to die due to hemorrhage in conditions offering no options for immediate evacuation?
6. What is being done to inform women of health risks to themselves and to future offspring in the embryonic stage of development?
CMR President Elaine Donnelly posted two messages asking the same six questions on the widely-read COMSubGroup TEN blog, which is operated by Rear Adm. Barry L. Bruner, head of the “Women in Submarines Task Force.” Donnelly noted that birth defects are difficult, the loss of reproductive capability devastating, and ectopic pregnancy life-threatening for women. Bruner conspicuously avoided answering her questions. Instead, Adm. Bruner claimed on his blog that there are “no discernable medical issues that should preclude the assignment of women to submarines.” He did not cite medical studies to support his statement, but he was probably referring to studies comparing adult men and women that specifically omitted discussion of the unique risks to adult women who are pregnant-a condition that is not rare among women of child-bearing age. It’s not as if the Navy is unaware of these issues. Details about women’s unique health risks were chronicled in this November 26, 2001, report of the Naval Submarine Medical Research Laboratory: The Medical Implications of Women on Submarines The report documented additional risks of spontaneous abortion and higher rates of migraine headaches, orthopedic injuries, and loss of bone strength over time (osteoporosis). It also commented on risks to a female sailor’s developing embryo if a pregnancy begins or is discovered while underway: “The submarine atmosphere, containing a chronically elevated level of CO2 and other contaminants, and submarine environmental factors such as noise and vibration levels, present currently unknown risks to the fetus. Reassurance, therefore, cannot be given to the reproductive age crewmember should she be pregnant while deployed.” (NSMRL, p. 26) Putting the horse after the cart, Adm. Bruner wrote that the Bureau of Medicine & Surgery has proposed three additional studies “to further quantify and validate the low probability of any effects of a submarine’s environment on women’s health or fetal development.” His disingenuous comment about “low probability” risks, followed by a pledge to conduct three more studies after the fact, suggests that previous medical studies were not reassuring. One has to wonder, to what degree the Navy is willing to risk the development of an unborn child in order to promote “diversity.” Irresolvable problems are being ignored at incalculable risk. Navy women should be officially informed that a career in submarines could put their future family and/or reproductive capability in danger. The submarine community as a whole also deserves an explanation of why it is necessary to implement this program without any cost/benefit analysis in terms of operational necessity, not “diversity” or other social goals. Absent this information, evaluated objectively, Congress had a duty to intervene. Instead, both Navy leaders and members of Congress let the submarine community down.
More information on this topic is available in the report of the Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC), titled Submarine Assignment Policy Assessment, which discussed difficult habitability issues that have not changed. SAIC noted that submarine accommodations have been compared to living inside a clock. Unencumbered space is about one-third to one-half that afforded to crewmembers n small surface ships. Total living area for more than 130 people on an attack sub is equivalent to a medium-size house. A diagram in the SAIC report illustrated how cramped a submarine’s living space is by superimposing the outline of a typical attack sub over the fuselage of a 747 aircraft. In this confined space sailors are expected to spend 77 days or more, often “hot-bunking” in shared berthing compartments offering little or no privacy.
HERE is a link to various reports on Women on Submarines… One other interesting question, how were the women selected? For the men, that is an arduous almost 2 year process, but the results of THAT process were completed with orders announced last October, and now suddenly 9 women have been selected; what was the process? Who ran it? How many competed? To what level of rigor? Personally, I believe the women should be in open and fair competition against the men for those billets, otherwise there WILL be heartburn/hate/discontent over their selection…
On the first subject…. my opinion only…. distraction and deception. There are other bills in Congress just now as well, and I suspect the less THOSE are in the news, the better the leadership would like it. Fill the news vacuum with DADT, and there is no room for the stock market regulatory bill, or the pension fund takover bill, or the trippling the federal gas tax bill, or…..
You do not need to put people at the height of their reproductive lives in a contained, close environment for six months at a time. It will be disastrous. I know they say there is no biological difference but there seems to be to me. Smoking and drinking and pregnancy come to mind. Men are able to drink and smoke when women should not. The environment would be difficult. There needs to be more studies done or make it a female only sub. I doubt you could find enough females to fill one up.
I agree with Carteach, distraction for votes and to sneak in more oppressive government programs and policies.
I do not think Obama gives a damn about the military.
Cateach0/ADM- I think you are both probably right, but this kind of turmoil at the expense of the military is NOT what is needed right now…
I happen to agree that women should not be on subs. It seems a recipe for disaster.
But if you only put lesbians on them the pregnancy issue would be a non-issue. 😉
I do not think that a woman should be denied any position she wants and is capable of filling, but “capable” has a wide range of definitions.
In this case, with the risk to a fetus, I think that “capable” should include “sterile” either temporarily or permanently, however the woman in question chooses.
With the availability of birth control that does not rely on the sailor remembering to take a pill or put on a patch (to note two of the less startling for men methods) including different types of Intrauterine Devices, it’s not unreasonable to expect a woman looking for a billet on a sub to ensure that no matter what might get out of hand, she’s not going to put her life or the life of an unborn child at risk.
IMO, it’s the only compromise between “anything you can do I can do better” and the harsh light of reality in which that is sometimes just not true.
NFO, I’m not gonna be around that much this weekend with the sailor coming into town. So I wanted to say on this holiday, Thank You for your service to our country. My family and I appreciate it! Have a good weekend and hope you get to relax for a bit. =)
AS a woman who served in both the USMC & USNR, I have to say, I NEVER had any desire to serve onboard a sub – I’ll go on a tour, but the idea of being THAT deep underwater, for THAT length of time just gives me the screamin’ meemies ………………. 😉
Never thought co-ed crews were a ‘good idea’, nor an all-woman crew – of course, due to my childhood, I have “issues” with too many women in one place ……………… 😉
Semper Fi’
DM
I agree with the first two commenters that DADT repeal is a misdirection. I discovered yesterday that the Obama crowd will be funding some Palestinians for a “relocation.” Something in the order of $25M/yr.
Why? It’s just go to buying weapons?
Idiots.
On SK/NK… I suspect that SK will be issuing sub hunting licenses soon.
Women on subs is a completely idiotic idea. Even an all-female crew on a sub, I would want NO part of. This is sheer lunacy. I was on a sub tender, often referred to as “the love boat” by everyone. What do they expect a sub to be? There’s no privacy on one.
Peedee- Oh good, that would be all we would need… 🙂 Enjoy the time with your daughter!
FG- Agreed, but again the Feminazis and ACLU would be suing before the ink was dry on a policy like that…
DM- little claustrophobic are we??? 🙂 It’s one thing to include females in crews when there is separate berthing (we deployed our squadron to Japan in 1977 with 48 female enlisted and 1 female officer and had NO problems); but in those confines, it’s only going to be trouble…
Crucis- Concur with all.
Diane- Agreed! Were you on L.Y. Spear or Yosemite?
NFO, maybe, but in the face of medical studies that state that a fetus would be damaged, they might be a little hesitant to jump in screaming, lest they be portrayed as baby-haters.
It’s a fine line to walk, but if the Navy wants to walk it, they should walk it right. If they require fail-safe (or as fail-safe as it gets anyway) birth control, they’ll be usurping a woman’s right over her own body, but if they don’t, they’ll be responsible (and sued, I have absolutely no doubt) for damaged fetuses and babies, and for NOT requiring some form of birth control. Personally I’d rather take the heat for the former (with an actual good reason for the policy) than the latter.
My son’s a CPO, soon to be COB.
He’s not bigoted, but he’s seen the effect of women on allied subs. Not good. Not good for family morale either.
They don’t hot bunk on LA Class, but the young ‘ens “sleep with the fishes”.
Are we running a Navy or a social experiment?