Sometimes…

Posted on by March 5, 2023

You just have to wonder about some procedures…

*** British Airways Flight Operations Department Notice ***
There appears to be some confusion over the new pilot role titles.
This notice will hopefully clear up any misunderstandings. The titles P1, P2, and Co-Pilot will now cease to have any meaning, within the BA operations manuals. They are to be replaced by Handling Pilot, Non-handling Pilot, Handling Landing Pilot, Non-Handling Landing Pilot, Handling Non-Landing Pilot, and Non Handling Non-Landing Pilot.

The Landing Pilot, is initially the Handling Pilot and will handle the take-off and landing except in role reversal when he is the Non-Handling Pilot for taxi until the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, hands the handling to the Landing Pilot at eighty knots. The Non-Landing (Non-Handling, since the Landing Pilot is handling) Pilot reads the checklist to the Handling Pilot until after Before Descent Checklist completion, when the Handling Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Non-Landing Pilot who then becomes the Handling Non-Landing Pilot.

The Landing Pilot is the Non-Handling Pilot until the “decision altitude” call, when the Handling Non-Landing Pilot hands the handling to the Non-Handling Landing Pilot, unless the latter calls “go-around”, in which case the Handling Non-Landing Pilot, continues Handling and the Non-Handling Landing Pilot continues non-handling until the next call of “land” or “go-around”, as appropriate. In view of the recent confusion over these rules, it was deemed necessary to restate them clearly.

To avoid confusion, here is the restatement in American English below the fold…

This is what we in the US refer to as the “monitored approach” method where on an approach to very low visibility and ceiling one pilot flies the approach and when the other pilot sees the runway he takes the plane and lands. This removes the problem of the pilot having to make the transition from flying instruments and at the last minute looking outside and getting his bearings” as the other pilot is already “outside”. If the pilot not flying says nothing by the time they reach “minimums”, the pilot flying automatically starts the “go-around” procedure as he is still on the instruments.

NOW does it all make sense???

Comments

Sometimes… — 25 Comments

  2. British Airways cockpit conversations, real soon now: https://tinyurl.com/y5tsmf9k

    Okay, now the serious suggestion: Maybe they could just use the terms “Instrument Pilot” and “Visual Pilot”, to line up nicely with IFR and VFR.

  4. The dumbing down of society will obviously include the flying profession. Sounds like a plan to confuse everyone…especially the people tasked with actually flying planes.

  5. The brits always have to do things the most complicated way possible.

  7. Reads like the Keystone Kops of aviation. My late ex-wife was British, and she was never that confusing.

  8. This IS a joke, right? Right? British Airways didn’t ACTUALLY publish this, did they? This HAS to be a joke. They CAN’T be that bound up in Corp. Speak, can they?

  9. Hey Old NFO;

    My eyes were crossing reading that….sheesh. Figured the Brits make something simple complicated….

  10. Retired in 2016 after flying for 40 years. Don’t get in an airplane these days if it can be avoided. Rather drive or ride my motorcycle.

    Think about this: What other business model lets you extract money from your customers in advance for a service you may or may not choose to provide and should you decide not to provide that service you get to issue a voucher for future service that you may choose not to honor or simply choose not to provide the agreed service.

    Plus, as a company bonus, employees get to treat the customers like manure.

    • You ever read the fine print for a telegraph? They promised to “attempt to deliver” your message. No definition of how they would do that, or how timely. No guarantee that it would even get there.

  12. Monty Python is rolling in their graves. John Cleese should sue for infringement.

  13. In the finest tradition. As my dad explained to me about taking off in a fully loaded B-17 in the English fog, as pilot he flew the instruments (specifically air speed) and his co-pilot flew outside, keeping them headed down the runway with the rudder pedals.

    During my Army hitch in West Germany, my buddy and I were Small Arms Repair. When a customer unit would bring in a weapon, we had a favorite routine. Would spout off a bunch of technical gobbledy gook, then look them dead in the eyes and state the best southern hick accent we could muster, “Itz bus’ed”.

  14. All- I don’t know for a fact that it is ‘official’, but it does pose a number of questions… CM- There has to be a designated pilot in command, but obviously not in this section… sigh

    Yes, if you’re flying an IFR approach with two pilots, one is head down on the gauges, the other is head out of the cockpit.

  16. Good gawd, that can’t be real!

    So, the instrument pilot can release the controls and relax as soon as s/he hears “Runway in sight … WAY over there! S#!t.”?

    ONFO: USN aircraft carriers can use ACLS under MUCH more difficult conditions than the run-of-the-mill airliner. Why are we futzing around with pilot handoff instead of using ACLS?

  17. Robert- Actually yes, if that is the normal procedure. The head out pilot takes over and flies to the runway! ACLS is not cheap and not on a lot of commercial aircraft… sigh

    • I would think the cost per plane would be almost insignificant; I can see where the ground portion could be a bit much.

      This is No S#!t: we had a fighter on a five(?) mile final. The controller had one of us techies watching over his shoulder. The ATC guy turned his gaze from the display for a moment and the tech saw the glideslope drop 200 feet. ATC ignored the tech and kept telling the pilot “lower, lower”… Pilot responded “I can see moonlight reflecting off the waves, I ain’t goin’ any lower!”. Thank dawg it wasn’t cloudy.

  20. “The pilot on the left side stays inside, while the pilot on the right side stays outside. The outside pilot on the left side is assisted by the inside pilot on the right side, until the outside pilot takes over as the inside pilot, even though they both stay on their respective sides. If either side changes sides, they’re declared offsides, except when the inside is allowed to become the outside, and the outside becomes the inside, while maintaining the aircraft rightside up (not to be confused with the left side and the right side staying on the same sides), and avoiding the downside of landing upside down.

    Cue Danny Kaye, and pallet with the pellet in the vessel with a pestle…

    • I wonder how many takes it took for that medieval “who’s on first” scene.

      And, nevermind who is on which side, just land the GD plane successfully!