I dunno… but definitely a change…
The Navy is slated to commission its very first Virginia-class submarine designed for a fully gender-integrated crew on Saturday.
A submarine designed and built for both genders has been a long time coming. The New Jersey is entering the fleet roughly 14 years after then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates ended the ban on women serving on subs in 2010.
Full article HERE from Navy Times. And the original article, HERE from last year.
Women are getting the ‘equality’ they wanted, but of course that comes with ‘accommodations’… I just wonder what they are…
There is no question things are changing for all of the services, but at what cost? We’ve seen a reduction to the physical requirements, changes to the training requirements, and female only spaces on some ships and subs.
I cannot help but wonder how much impact that is having on morale, in addition to the loss of promotable billets for males…
Your thoughts?
It’ll go sideways, and the Navy will cover it up when it does, and that’s all I’m publicly saying on this matter.
Sounds very plausible to me.
I wonder how many women will get pregnant on their first cruise. IIRC, when they put women on aircraft carriers the number of women getting pregnant was north of 50%.
Horny young fit men, in close proximity with (presumably) horny fit young women, what could possibly go wrong? Will condoms be available in the heads? I worry about the sanity of the First Classes and Chiefs.
And women will still have pre-natal exception as well as post-natal. Their contribution to the work force will continue to be unpredictable and particularly expensive in submarines.
Submariners are a unique breed, and (used to be) selected for same for a reason. Yeah, confine men and women in the same metal tube for extended time periods. What could possibly go wrong?
But what do I know? I’m just an old ground pounder NCO.
RHT447 nailed it. To serve in a submarine, and for the life of me I don’t know who would want to, you had to be wired up a certain way. Confined spaces, sardine tight living conditions, and the thought that the sea could come rushing in at any moment wouldn’t bother you. You had to be immune to the offensive habits and idiosyncrasies of the men you served with.
The same thing was true for isolated duty, which my father endured during WWII. He was a RADAR operator stationed at a listening post somewhere in the Aleutian Islands. The brass in the US Coast Guard, in their infinite f***ing wisdom, decided he was psychologically suited to that environment, and as it turned out they were right. The maximum length of time you were allowed to serve in isolated duty was six months; my father served eighteen. At the end, even the men stationed with him said he was beginning to act a bit odd.
Put women into a situation like that and neglect to add birth control, and in nine months you’ll have twice the population you started out with, and more paternity suits that Old NFO can count without taking off his shoes and mine.
LMAO!
I had a friend in college who was a Coastie during Vietnam. He was class president, all area athlete and got accepted in the USCG rather then get drafted.
First duty station was at a place that sounded like your father’s station. After six months he volunteered for Vietnam. When he got there everyone said he was crazy. He said you don’t have a clue where I was. I would have been crazy if I stayed.
A cousin joined the Navy to see the world. Spent 3+ years as a Yeoman on Adak Island.
It gets worse that that. What happens when women have their period? Even on birth control, they still have it. All of those Pheromones are suddenly being released in a CLOSED environmental system?
That Men are HARD-WIRED to be affected by?
There’s a certain ‘smell’ women have when it’s that time of the month. Most guys can still smell it. Now the entire sub is going to stink of it.
IIRC, females in constrained living quarters (homes, harems, etc) tend to end up with the same time factors for menstruation. They all get in sync.
Anyone remember the female officers on that Navy ship that collided with another vessel due to them not talking to each other? THAT should have put the end to female officers as crew on Navy vessels.
All- Y’all are thinking the same thing(s) I am… Gerry, I can’t help but wonder if he was at Cold Bay! That LORAN station was limited to six weeks at a time, then a two week break.
One of the issues on my first-flight LA-class boat was access to valves to operate or to maintain. You need to be an orangutang on steroids to reach and operate some of them and needed an arm with two elbows and eyes on your knuckles to do maintenance. I’m talking about threading nuts on bolts for a flange on the far side of a pump where there is no access from that side, only by reaching around the pump. If the engineers fixed SOME of those issues making the boat female-friendly it is a good thing.
We cursed the engineers at Newport News who designed the boat on a regular basis.
There are only a few jobs on a sub that needed knuckle-draggers like me. They are in the Engine Room, Aux Machine spaces, and the Torpedo room. Radiomen, ETs, Sonar Techs, Fire Control Techs (who aren’t re-classified Torpedomen), Cooks, Yeomen and Storekeepers don’t do heavy lifting as part of the job.
My boat had a small berthing compartment on the lower level with a head across the passage. If they moved the head over and made it en-suite that could be female berthing for 15 sailors.
There will be a lot of pregnant mermaids out of this. Will they also have a space for all the new born babies?
Wait, what? Only two genders? I thought they would have to make room for at least 23 genders! Heh.
Exactly. Who said there are only two genders…even in the Navy?
At the end of it, they are admitting to what everyone else knew was stupid liberal bullshit.
When I retired 33+ years ago, my remarks to a mostly male Caucasian assemblage included something to the effect that “when I came in women were only PN’s, YN’s and maybe HM’s all ashore, Blacks and Filipinos were just being allowed out of the wardroom, but ONLY to menial tasks in Engineering or maybe Deck Department, now look” I pointed out my female Senior CPO LCPO, a Black CMC in the one squadron on base, a Filipino mustang that was the base Admin Officer and finished with “guys you need to check your 6’s, those that were relegated to only admin and menial tasks when I came in are now in leadership, positions, get used to working for these folks, yes their gender or race had a few breaks along the way put these folks busted their asses to get where they are, you are going to have to bust yours to get to where they are”
I doubt seriously I will live to see a woman C.O. of a Virginia class much less a boomer but that day is on the horizon. The nay sayers today are the same as they were in my day, they have to put their big boy skivvies on or they will be by passed by those that WANT IT.
Calm down…
Everyone who makes it to the top “wants it”.
Sometimes “want” is nowhere near enough. I have nowhere near the eyesight, the reflexes or the aptitude for some jobs. Call it an accident of birth if you like, but I have no divine right to be put into a job for which I am not suited, no matter how bloody hard I “want” or work.
The taxpayers who are paying for everything, and the citizens whose security depend on an effective military, also have rights…… one of which is to not have to pay for or depend on politically-correct job-placements. Each place should be filled by the best available people. Which sometimes requires choosing those who do not cause problems just by being what they are.
That’s reality.
Which navy was more effective?
It’ll go pear-shaped.
I remember when I saw women coming aboard my carrier (CV 59) as I was leaving, for ‘consultations’ as to refitting the berthing quarters, heads, etc. I was glad my EAOS was in sight.
Saw the Fox report on this today.
My impression was that more than half the “women” won’t have any interest in anyone with two X chromosomes.
I meant XY chromosomes.
I’d be afraid to meet many of those people in a dark alley.
Having been in all male Army units nearly 60 years ago, I don’t know enough about the Navy to have any insight. What I do know is there is a submarine sitting at Bremerton that can’t go to sea because it can’t qualify for a dive certificate.Money issue?
I wouldn’t be too fussed if they went with all-female crews…… but they won’t.
They want men around to do the heavy lifting, and to share the blame when things go sideways.
How long before the first sub has to surface when it should be hiding, because some female crew-member finds out that she is pregnant and declares a medical emergency! It was bad enough in Afghan when they simply got flown home and left the rest of their squad with an increased workload, but when we are talking about submarines that are supposed to be able to remain submerged and undetected for an extended period…
There is more than I care to type on women in the Navy . Women were just just beginning to get phased onto surface combatants as I was rolling out . I can remember seeing women across the water on the “oilers” as we were alongside , hooked up and connected during UNREPS. They were present on supply ships and tenders . I knew a few that were competent when on shore rotation working as a “rigger” , and some that were not , the same could be said for some of my male counterparts . Bunches would get pregnant leading up to every deployment to get out of deploying making the watchbill a bitch to workout on those ships I was told by other sailors. I can just imagine the “fan room romances” that take place , human nature Man . There are so many non sea-going rates …I really don’t know on this one NFO . I did know of many women who over compensated by being mean as a leadership strategy , thinking it was…fuck I don’t know…compensatory masculinity . I knew others who were certainly smart, knowledgable and cool to hang with. Beats Me man . I fold on this issue .
One more thing, depending on your sea/shore rotation for your rate, and I am no math wiz, I think a female , if she was willing to raise a mess of kids, could do twenty without ever going to sea by timing pregnancies to upcoming deployments , also thereby getting body fat waivers for PRT’s by constantly being either post pregnant or pregnant . I can’t do the math , but I think it could be done …maybe?
Any focus on anything other than the mission increases cost and decreases capability. Period.(see what I did there?)
Why not an all female crew? Oh, because they would get lost.
Because there would be no men to blame…
Why not an all female crew? Oh, because they would get lost.
I suspect come the time when the military has to get real serious about its function – say a full war? – things may get back to reality very quickly.