You may or may not have heard about the “nationwide” wireless Lightsquared is trying to put up… Problem is, it interferes with GPS since it uses the SAME frequency band…
In 2011, LightSquared’s attempts at creating a nationwide wireless broadband system have put GPS technology as we know it in jeopardy. Among others working to stop this crap is Save Our GPS Coalition http://saveourgps.org to raise awareness about the effect this issue would have on GPS for unmanned systems.
On 12 Jan., the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) sent a letter to the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), stating, “…this proposal raises significant interference concerns…” and that “…it is incumbent on the FCC to deal with the resulting interference issues before any interference occurs.” The NTIA is the executive branch agency, located within the Department of Commerce, principally responsible for advising the president on telecommunications and information policy issues. The NTIA consulted with the departments of Defense, Transportation and Homeland Security before releasing its statement. LightSquared continues to lobby the FCC to grant its request to create a nationwide network of ground transmitters that could drown out GPS signals.
Despite repeated negative testing, LightSquared pushes on in an attempt to create a nationwide broadband network that would cripple GPS as we know it. Just this week http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/another-test-finds-lightsquareds-satellite-service-interferes-with-military-aviation-operations/2012/01/17/gIQAcXZo6P_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headline, federal regulators released a report saying the problems with LightSquared’s plan were not fixable, and LightSquared responded with a press release calling the system “rigged,” instead of taking steps to actually fix the problem and save our GPS.
So if you ‘value’ that little GPS system in your car or airplane, you might want to pay attention this…
It may come back to bite us all in the butt!!!
Lightsquared is also a major Obama donor, which is reportedly how they got the go-ahead for this in the first place over the objections of the military that also relies on GPS.
Good grief. How much more do we have to take??
You bet I’ve heard about it. It’s one of those things that happen when the FCC is run by LAWYERS and not ENGINEERS!
Oh, yeah I heard about it some time ago. I am still bent over this one.
So glad my Dad taught me how to read a topo map and compass at an early age.
Under this regime Money Talks and reality takes the hind most.
Time for another ammo run.
Murph- Yep, and it ALSO kills all vehicle GPS too!
agirl- Who knows… sigh
drjim- True
Keads- It’s not over yet either!
Stretch- I STILL carry real maps in my truck 🙂 and you’re right about money vs. reality!
If we really care about GPS why are the satellites still first generation and operating past life expectancy.
Is Lightsquared using the exact same frequency? Or just realy close to cause yhe drown out?
How hard is it to change the frequency of the lightsquared system?
Why is the military who own the satalites up in arms? Is it they are are working on a next gen. GPS systems(?). You would think that if GPS was still tied to national security… There would be more of a stick coming out of the Defense Department.
Hmmm….
I’m not an engineer, but something doesn’t sit right with this.
“Lightsquared is also a major Obama donor” Yep. Crony capitalism.
There was a certain post-Weimar administration that had it’s favorite companies.
Lightsquared is *close* to the GPS frequencies, and the major problem is that GPS receivers were never designed to accept out-of-band-signal this close to where they operate. It’s a similar situation to what happens with “DC-to-Daylight” scanners….they have no (or very little) adjacent channel rejection. The signals from the GPS satellites are MUCH weaker than the terrestrial portion of Lightsquared’s network, and it “swamps” the front-end of the GPS receivers.
More at Wikipedia now that it’s back up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsquared
I’m a map guy also. GPS units have their place, but like any technology they are prone to fail just when they’re needed the most.
I don’t know if the Navy has an equivalent saying, but in the Army we used to say the biggest threat we faced was a 2nd lieutenant with a compass and a map.
Another degree warmer for the frog (us) in the pot.
Yep, this one has me and a helluva lot of pilots concerned.
I grew up navigating with VORs and ADFs, along with pilotage and ded reckoning. Can always go back to that, especially when the Taylorcraft is finished and we begin flying it.
But there are also some important safety features in today’s general aviation GPS units that have saved more than one ass–like the “Nearest Airport” function on all Garmins.
I’ve used the instant waypoint feature more times than I can recall just in the past few years when spotting wildfires during xcountry trips and then calling in to FSS.
But Obama says GPS isn’t threatened.
Bottom line is that Obama don’t know shit. He don’t know shit about aviation, about war, about the military, about working or anything about jobs, about business, about religion (other than Islam).
About the only dumber son of a bitch than Obama is the son of a bitch who continues to believe in him.
–AOA
Thanks drjim.
Not to mention the millions and millions of dollars worth of terrestrial surveying that now relies on GPS rather than classical methods.
Josh- A partial answer is there have been “issues” with getting the replacement birds in orbit. drjim has a good answer, and you also have to remember the ‘receive wattage’ for GPS on earth is down around 500milliwatts, so LS can/will overcome that rather easily.
Ed- Yep
drjim- thx 🙂
Tim- Ens on the bridge with the conn, middle of the night… 🙂
WSF- Yep! dammit
AOA- you are correct and right on the money!
PH- another good point!
Nearly every cell phone and tablet in this country has a GPS receiver. I can’t see this thing getting into production without interfering with millions of devices already in the hands of consumers. And parts of E911 rely on GPS. Does Obama really want this kind of firestorm? Oh wait, yeah I guess he’s already shown he doesn’t care what happens to the country.
Well, what most people don’t realize is that the GPS we use today is actually the 2nd. Generation. The first Generation was called “Navstar”, and was designed to be use aboard the U.S. Navy’s FBM Submarines (41 for Freedom!) back in the Sixties. It worked so well, it spread to other Boats and Ships in the Fleet, and then with the advent of the I.C. chip, smaller versions were finally able to be put into Avionics. I think the P-3s started getting them in the late 70’s/early80’s, but you would know more about that.
The main reason we went to the 2nd. Gen Satellites is that, after 20+ years in Orbit, the Birds started to die off. Not bad for a Satellite that was supposed to only last 6 months!
Trust me, I spent most of my Naval Career working on the old AN/BRN-3 Satellite Receiver System (along with other gear). What most people have in their Smart Phones used to take the Space of 2 Refrigerators.
As to LightSquared: Aren’t the Rooskies making their own GPS System? Sounds like part of the deal that the Anointed One made with Putin is that the Tzar of All the Russias gets to control all of the U.S. Space Footprint. So why does he care about GPS?
I wouldn’t put it past Barry to give over all the Spy Satellites to Tzar Putin “all in the Name of World Peace.”
There are *several* GPS type systems in use. The Russians have their GLONASS systems, the Europeans have their Galileo system, the Chinese have their COMPASS system, and the Indians have one they call the “Regional Navigational Satellite System”.
The US system, the only one I’m quite familiar with, uses five frequencies, called L1, L2, L3, L4, and L5.
The L1 and L2 frequencies are used for navigation, with the others being used for other things. The L1 “band” is from 1599MHz to 1610MHz, and the Lightsquared frequency allocation is from 1525MHz to 1599MHz, and there’s NO “guard band” that separates the two services. This a major Charlie Foxtrot that some brain-dead lawyer probably thought of, not realizing there NEEDS to be a small amount of “guard band” or “dead band” space between the two allocations. It’s similar to what other wireless broadband providers want to do with the guard band between TV channels, only they’re calling it “white space”. The NAB screamed bloody murder when the FCC allocated some of the “white space” between the channels for broadband use. It WILL degrade TV reception where it’s in use. Non-radio people don’t realize/understand/care that you NEED little blank spots between channels to avoid adjacent interference. Even the best receivers made have trouble dealing with adjacent channel rejection when there’s no space between adjacent channels. Yes, 1599MHz *is* a different frequency than 1600MHz, but the signals on the frequencies spread some amount above and below the carrier frequency, which is why even thogh it’s called a “channel”, it can be anywhere from a few hundred Hz wide, to many MHz wide, depending on the type of emission used.
Also isn’t what cell phones tout as GPS is cell tower triangulation not satellite triangulation.
So, I’m thinking the average On Star/ Cell Phone user won’t be effected. So, they’re not expexting a big back lash?
I’m just trying to figure out why they’re not worried about alienating large segments of the population.
Oh….Wait….. we’re talking about the government….. crony
Nevermind!
drjim –
I’m think like old FM AM radio tuning.
🙂
Josh,
Things like iPods and iPads that don’t have cellular do use GPS. Not to mention all those cars with GPS systems.
Also, a good many cell phones do have GPS in them to aid E911 as well as cell tower triangulation.
For info on the Enhanced 911 service (“E911”), wikipedia has a good article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E911
Andy- You’re right!
Les- We got GPS in the late 80’s I actually tested some of the original Trimble systems… And yeah, Navistar worked pretty well! At least you never had to screw with a WRN-6!
drjim- You’re correct, and don’t forget the ‘splash over’ that almost always occurs… sigh
Josh- Cells do have a GPS ‘chip’ in them…
Andy/drjim- Thanks
I have a femtocell in my family room.
It attaches to the internet to give me a mini celltower so I get good coverage at home.
When I check Google maps (on my Blackberry) in my yard, it shows me in Cleveland, Ohio, not Ypsilanti MI.
Palm Pre also.
Hmmm…. live & learn.
🙂
Ed- Yep, all kinds of “little” side effects to those broadcast signals…
Josh- We ALL do, don’t feel bad.