I ‘know’ I’m opening a can of worms here, so let me state from the outset these are “MY” views, not anybody else…
For simplicity, I’m NOT addressing rifle/AR/long gun triggers here. Chuck Hawks has a good description HERE.
First of all, terms-
DAO (Double-Action Only): The firing pin is disengaged prior to firing. Pulling the trigger both cocks the hammer/sets the firing pin and then releases it, firing the cartridge. After firing, the hammer/firing pin is returned to “decocked” position; same as you would find in DA revolvers.
These are notoriously LONG triggers and pull can range up to 8 lbs for a NY Glock.
DA/SA: The firing pin is disengaged prior to firing. Pulling the trigger both cocks the hammer/sets the firing pin and then releases it, firing the cartridge. After firing, the hammer/firing pin remains cocked, resulting in a shorter, lighter trigger pull for subsequent follow-up shots. Pistols in this group are equipped with a manual safety and/or “decock” lever; that returns the firing pin/hammer to “uncocked”, and thus returning the trigger to the longer, firmer double-action (DA) pull. Beretta M-92 or FNH Tacticals are examples of this.
SAA – Single Action Army, e.g. old Colt pistols… Light trigger pull 2-4 lbs, always keep the hammer down on an empty chamber.
DA/SA revolvers, can either be cocked using your thumb, and get a short/light trigger SA; or DA which rotates the cylinder, cocks and fires the gun. The DA trigger pull on a revolver can easily be 12 lbs or more.
Now what? Well, how do you ‘train’ if you carry multiple guns?
Simplistic answer is LOTS of shooting; the secondary is to stay with ‘one’ type of action (not practical, because there is always that ‘one more gun’); the third way is to shoot a variety of pistols and find out which type of action YOU are most comfortable with.
Some folks are ‘much’ more comfortable with guns like Glocks and shoot them well (because they have trained with that trigger pull and reset), rather than 1911s because of the cocked and locked carry.
Others prefer the 1911 model, cocked and locked with the shorter/lighter trigger pull and quicker reset.
Another option for triggers/trigger pull is to buy a .22 in the type of gun you prefer, be it a revolver, a DA/SA, a DAO or SAO. The next thing is to get the sight picture and trigger pull of the .22 matched to that of your carry pistol.
Now before you ‘shoot the messenger’ here, lets take a look at $$…
A Ruger 22/45 for example is about $350, with a Volquartsen trigger mod (Thanks to Sean Sorrentino for that lead), $450…
Now since I have it matched to my .45 carry let’s look at ammo pricing- CCI .22 $7.95/100 Winchester .45 ~$30/50
When I go to the range, I’ll routinely shoot 1-200 rounds for proficiency, so the .22 costs me $16/200 the .45 $120. So if I go to the range FOUR times I’ve effectively paid for the 22/45 in saved ammo costs.
Now if I have, for example S&W M&P series pistol, you could also get the M&P .22 for a trainer; then go in and put the APEX mods in both pistols and you’d have a matched set of trigger pulls and sight pictures.
How much trigger pull is right???
Well, it depends on whether it’s a bullseye gun, and race gun (IPSC/IDPA/3 Gun) or a carry piece.
First Semi-autos-
Bullseye guns can run as low as 2 lbs for triggers, some folks are even lighter (although that scares me). Even a slight bump will fire the gun, and dropping the slide can also fire an old steel trigger version. There is just ‘enough’ sear engagement to allow the gun to fire safely. And they fire very specific target/match rounds with the gun ‘matched’ to the rounds or vice versa.
Race guns ‘tend’ to run between 3-4 lbs, and have VERY short take up/reset to maximize trigger speed. They also don’t fire full power defensive rounds, and have lighter recoil springs to minimize recoil allowing a quicker return to target.
Carry guns can run from 4-12 lbs, with most above 5.5 lbs and some NY trigger Glocks at the 12 lbs range. Also, unless they’ve been ‘tuned’ the take up tends to be longer, and grittier with the same said for reset. For training folks tend to fire FMJ (cheaper), but one always needs to at least fire a mag or two of full power defensive ammo (which also helps cycle your ready ammo).
And now Revolvers-
Bullseye guns can run as low as 2 lbs for SA triggers, and 3-4 lbs for DAO triggers. And they fire very specific target/match rounds with the gun ‘matched’ to the rounds or vice versa.
DA/SA Race guns ‘tend’ to run between 7-9 lbs in DA and down to 2-3 lbs in SA, and have been tuned to maximize trigger speed. They also don’t fire full power defensive rounds, and have lighter hammer springs to minimize trigger pull and have just enough power to actually fire the rounds.
Carry guns can run from 3-4 lbs SA-12+ lbs DA. Also, unless they’ve been ‘tuned’ the take up tends to be longer, and reset is longer than semi-autos since one needs to let the trigger out completely to pick up the pawl and rotate the cylinder for the next round. For training folks tend to fire FMJ or wadcutter (cheaper), sometimes in .38 rather than .357 (cheaper still) but one always needs to at least fire a cylinder or two of full power defensive ammo to relearn the recoil (going from .38 WC to .357 Hollow Point WILL get your attention). This will also helps cycle your ready ammo.
For a carry piece, in my opinion, you DO NOT want a 2 lb trigger; simply said, if you’re down to having to use a carry weapon, you’re going to be lacking ‘fine’ motor skills. Having said this, with a 2 lb trigger you might actually discharge the weapon without even knowing it.
What ever your choice of pistols, please go practice with them. Learn the take up, the reset, and most of all the sight picture and nature of the recoil with your defensive loads.
Remember, YMMV, I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night, and I don’t play a lawyer on TV… Feel free to comment, and provide your insights.
For simplicity, I’m NOT addressing rifle/AR/long gun triggers here. Chuck Hawks has a good description HERE.
First of all, terms-
DAO (Double-Action Only): The firing pin is disengaged prior to firing. Pulling the trigger both cocks the hammer/sets the firing pin and then releases it, firing the cartridge. After firing, the hammer/firing pin is returned to “decocked” position; same as you would find in DA revolvers.
These are notoriously LONG triggers and pull can range up to 8 lbs for a NY Glock.
DA/SA: The firing pin is disengaged prior to firing. Pulling the trigger both cocks the hammer/sets the firing pin and then releases it, firing the cartridge. After firing, the hammer/firing pin remains cocked, resulting in a shorter, lighter trigger pull for subsequent follow-up shots. Pistols in this group are equipped with a manual safety and/or “decock” lever; that returns the firing pin/hammer to “uncocked”, and thus returning the trigger to the longer, firmer double-action (DA) pull. Beretta M-92 or FNH Tacticals are examples of this.
Again DA is notoriously LONG triggers and pull can range up to 8 lbs; in SA the trigger pull is much shorter (reset only), and much lighter 3-4 lbs.
SAO: The hammer/firing pin is cocked whenever slide is racked. These pistols are carried “cocked and locked,” meaning the firing pin/hammer is cocked with the manual safety on “Safe”. Typically 1911-style pistols, which may or may not have an additional grip safety.
SAO trigger pulls are short and ‘light’ by comparison to the DA or DAO, and are the easiest to ‘set’ for take up, overtravel and precise break. Can be set as low as 2 lbs, normal carry pistol triggers set for 5-5.5 lbs but feel ‘much’ lighter.
SA/DA: As far as I know, only found in Taurus’ pistols, this set-up maintains a “cocked” hammer/firing pin whenever the slide is racked. However, if the primer of the chambered cartridge fails to ignite upon firing, the trigger releases to a heaver double-action (DA) pull.
The reverse of earlier pistols, SA trigger pull is short (reset only), and much lighter 3-4 lbs; DA is LONGER and trigger pull can range up to 8 lbs.
SAA – Single Action Army, e.g. old Colt pistols… Light trigger pull 2-4 lbs, always keep the hammer down on an empty chamber.
DA/SA revolvers, can either be cocked using your thumb, and get a short/light trigger SA; or DA which rotates the cylinder, cocks and fires the gun. The DA trigger pull on a revolver can easily be 12 lbs or more.
Now what? Well, how do you ‘train’ if you carry multiple guns?
Simplistic answer is LOTS of shooting; the secondary is to stay with ‘one’ type of action (not practical, because there is always that ‘one more gun’); the third way is to shoot a variety of pistols and find out which type of action YOU are most comfortable with.
Some folks are ‘much’ more comfortable with guns like Glocks and shoot them well (because they have trained with that trigger pull and reset), rather than 1911s because of the cocked and locked carry.
Others prefer the 1911 model, cocked and locked with the shorter/lighter trigger pull and quicker reset.
Another option for triggers/trigger pull is to buy a .22 in the type of gun you prefer, be it a revolver, a DA/SA, a DAO or SAO. The next thing is to get the sight picture and trigger pull of the .22 matched to that of your carry pistol.
Now before you ‘shoot the messenger’ here, lets take a look at $$…
A Ruger 22/45 for example is about $350, with a Volquartsen trigger mod (Thanks to Sean Sorrentino for that lead), $450…
Now since I have it matched to my .45 carry let’s look at ammo pricing- CCI .22 $7.95/100 Winchester .45 ~$30/50
When I go to the range, I’ll routinely shoot 1-200 rounds for proficiency, so the .22 costs me $16/200 the .45 $120. So if I go to the range FOUR times I’ve effectively paid for the 22/45 in saved ammo costs.
Now if I have, for example S&W M&P series pistol, you could also get the M&P .22 for a trainer; then go in and put the APEX mods in both pistols and you’d have a matched set of trigger pulls and sight pictures.
How much trigger pull is right???
Well, it depends on whether it’s a bullseye gun, and race gun (IPSC/IDPA/3 Gun) or a carry piece.
First Semi-autos-
Bullseye guns can run as low as 2 lbs for triggers, some folks are even lighter (although that scares me). Even a slight bump will fire the gun, and dropping the slide can also fire an old steel trigger version. There is just ‘enough’ sear engagement to allow the gun to fire safely. And they fire very specific target/match rounds with the gun ‘matched’ to the rounds or vice versa.
Race guns ‘tend’ to run between 3-4 lbs, and have VERY short take up/reset to maximize trigger speed. They also don’t fire full power defensive rounds, and have lighter recoil springs to minimize recoil allowing a quicker return to target.
Carry guns can run from 4-12 lbs, with most above 5.5 lbs and some NY trigger Glocks at the 12 lbs range. Also, unless they’ve been ‘tuned’ the take up tends to be longer, and grittier with the same said for reset. For training folks tend to fire FMJ (cheaper), but one always needs to at least fire a mag or two of full power defensive ammo (which also helps cycle your ready ammo).
And now Revolvers-
Bullseye guns can run as low as 2 lbs for SA triggers, and 3-4 lbs for DAO triggers. And they fire very specific target/match rounds with the gun ‘matched’ to the rounds or vice versa.
DA/SA Race guns ‘tend’ to run between 7-9 lbs in DA and down to 2-3 lbs in SA, and have been tuned to maximize trigger speed. They also don’t fire full power defensive rounds, and have lighter hammer springs to minimize trigger pull and have just enough power to actually fire the rounds.
Carry guns can run from 3-4 lbs SA-12+ lbs DA. Also, unless they’ve been ‘tuned’ the take up tends to be longer, and reset is longer than semi-autos since one needs to let the trigger out completely to pick up the pawl and rotate the cylinder for the next round. For training folks tend to fire FMJ or wadcutter (cheaper), sometimes in .38 rather than .357 (cheaper still) but one always needs to at least fire a cylinder or two of full power defensive ammo to relearn the recoil (going from .38 WC to .357 Hollow Point WILL get your attention). This will also helps cycle your ready ammo.
For a carry piece, in my opinion, you DO NOT want a 2 lb trigger; simply said, if you’re down to having to use a carry weapon, you’re going to be lacking ‘fine’ motor skills. Having said this, with a 2 lb trigger you might actually discharge the weapon without even knowing it.
What ever your choice of pistols, please go practice with them. Learn the take up, the reset, and most of all the sight picture and nature of the recoil with your defensive loads.
Remember, YMMV, I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night, and I don’t play a lawyer on TV… Feel free to comment, and provide your insights.
Cocks the firing pin?!?
Otherwise, yeah, about my experience.
One thing about racegun ammo. At least the .40S&W shooters I know hit harder than .38+P or 9mm (and about as hard as .45FMJ!). 180gr slugs at 950fps or so.
Scott- My bad… sigh…
Good observations – Like ’em all.
Had incredible luck with a .40 DAO Beretta and a .40 SIG 226.
Ended up not buying either, to my dismay.
Tack drivers.
Still own a 1911 with a light trigger which prints much better than I could ever hope to.
gfa
I’m not by any means an expert, but FWIW IMO and all that other good stuff I don’t worry so much about trigger pull weight ( 2 or 3 lbs vs. 5-6-7 lbs) as I do crispness. If the trigger has a short travel and a very distinct break then I’m happy, no matter what the pull weight is.
I’ve had a trigger job done on my Springfield .45 compact and it breaks cleanly and consistently. I’m not sure what the exact pull weight is (it’s on the light side, but not toolight) but it breaks crisply every time. That results in more shots on target.
YMMV…
Had a trigger job done on the Charter Bulldog. DA breaks at 4-5 lbs. SA at 2 lbs. Me and hand gun? Major practice would take me from marginal to barely adequate.
gfa- Good point, everybody is different in what they like and which gun ‘fits’ them!
Tim- Yep, clean trigger break is worth it’s weight in gold! Until you’ve actually shot a gun with an excellent trigger, you don’t know what you’re missing!!!
WSF- That is the lightest DA I’ve ever heard of on a revolver! You’ve got a great gunsmith to get it to there!
But what about the H&K P7?
Correction. DA trigger pull on the Bulldog is 7 lbs. Confused it with another semi I once had.
Lots of good ground covered here sir! I always find it interesting that when you “drill down” on any specific component group there is just so much “meat” there . . . .
Thanks for the great review!
Murph- That’s YOUR problem… 😛
WSF- That is STILL a nice trigger!
eia- Yep, and you could literally go on for pages…
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