Range Time!!!

I got to the range Sunday early, because I wanted to do some ammo testing…

I was shooting these: “Technically” all three of these are subsonic…  1116.13fps is considered supersonic.

Ammo test

Federal Match- 1000fps

Eley Subsonic- 1065fps

CCI Quiet-22- 710fps

Weather conditions at 0900- 41 degrees, 54% humidity, 0 wind (Chilly!!!)

Here is the video of the Marlin 39A (23 inch barrel)

I used this as the ‘base’ test.  And yes my hands were cold… but all rounds fired and ejected (manually) sigh…

Next up was the 10-22 (16 inch barrel) without, then with the suppressor.

In neither case did the CCI Quiet-22 actually cycle the bolt completely…

Next up was the Savage MK-II (21 inch barrel) without, then with the suppressor.

All three worked fine in the bolt action… (Colder hands)…

I also shot the 22-45 without and with the suppressor, but sadly didn’t start the video… (my bad)…

Now the question is, were there differences in accuracy with and without the suppressor?  I’ll qualify this by saying yes, but not by much…  The bigger difference is between the various brands of ammo.

Considering I was not shooting off a rest, and shooting fairly rapidly at 50 yards, the results are below.

Target 2

As you can see, there was a significant drop off with the rounds from the 22-45.  I was trying for the same hold, on the bull…

The Model 39 was very consistent, but I did ‘drop’ the last shot (Quiet-22) it probably should have been 3 inches higher…

Here are the two rifles without then with the suppressor.  Upper right and left are without; lower right and left are with. On the 10-22, the Quiet-22 barely missed the paper low, it about an inch and a half below the Eley round.

Target close upYMMV, but I hope this gives folks an idea of what these rounds will do through various rifles and pistols.  And they were ALL quieter than the .308 being shot the next range over!!!

For whatever it’s worth, the Federal was ‘slightly’ more accurate, with about 1/2 inch drop between it and the Eley, with the CCI about an inch below the Federal on the average.  Where you see the biggest difference is in the pistol accuracy, but I’ll have to admit part of that was also my ability to have a steady hold.

Comments

Range Time!!! — 16 Comments

  1. When attaching the suppressor to the rifles, is it possible that the barrel steel is just flexing downward slightly due to the weight of the suppressor? That would tend to explain the straight line drop in the point of impact. If you need to borrow my Starret Last Word indicator for a measurement let me know. I am sure that the amount of barrel movement that would cause the drop in the point of impact is calculable, but it is not going to be calculated by me.

    My time in the Navy Yard taught me that steel is only somewhat more rigid than Silly Putty.

    And on the subject of suppressors, as a Philadelphia resident, the only option seems to be trust. Started gathering information.

    And as the snow begins, another benefit of retirement becomes obvious.

    Take care,

    John in Philly

  2. John- Thanks! Based on my simple range testing at 50 yards, I see a negligible difference between POA/POI off the bench on both guns. The AAC is a light little suppressor though. A heavier one ‘could’ impact it.

    • If you get around to it, what are the weights of each suppressor? We are going to be snowed in for the next couple of days, so I figured I could simulate a rifle barrel from steel stock, chuck it in the lathe, put a dial indicator at the tailstock, and measure the deflection when weight is applied. (And yes I could remove an AR barrel from an upper for the test but I am not that fanatical.)

      And of course in answer to why, because!

      Years ago in the Philly Shipyard, we were measuring the thrust of one of the aircraft carrier main engine LP turbines. The dial indicator needle would move, and then stop moving even though we could see the rotor was still moving. Short answer was the entire front of the turbine casing was flexing outward when the thrust collar came solidly against the shoes.

      John in (Snowy) Philly

    • The deflection test went well. I used a length of cold rolled mild steel .750 in diameter. The longest extension I could get past the lathe’s three jaw was just under nineteen inches.

      Results. Sixteen ounce weight at about the eighteen inch point caused a deflection of .005 (five thousands) and an eight ounce weight caused a deflection of .0025 (two and one half thousands)

      And I agree that a solid piece of mild steel is not a perfect stand in for a rifle barrel. I suspect the effect might be greater than expected with a suppressor due to the length of the suppressor acting as a lever.

      Of course the real test is using a machine rest, and the actual suppressor(s) on a range.

      John in Philly

      John in Philly

  3. Jim, a few thoughts.
    Due to subsonic’s low velocity, follow through after the shot is quite important. Barrel time is (relatively) long so the rigidity of your position is important as is the weight of the trigger pull. (the release of several lbs of force and the same force hitting the overtravel stop causes the rifle to move while the bullet is in the barrel)
    Rimfires are notoriously picky about which ammo they like. If you are lucky enough to find one that likes cheap ammo, so much the better. What one rifle likes and shoots well may not work as well in the next one off the assembly line.
    As a general rule with rimfire ammo of good quality, the higher price may not gain better accuracy but will gain better consistency. (read that as fewer flyers)
    Subsonics do better at ranges over about 90 yards as the hi velocity rounds go trans-sonic at about that distance & de-stabilize a bit.
    Most rimfire ammo reaches its maximum velocity at about 18″ in the barrel, past that, they are slowing down.
    Typically, for accuracy, it takes, usually about 10 rounds to foul in a clean barrel and at least 10 and commonly more. rounds for a rimfire barrel to re-foul in with an ammo brand change

    The above information has been learned the old fashioned way, on the range. I compete in NRA smallbore conventional prone & the NRA claims that I am a master at that arcane obsession. YMMV & all that.

  4. Pretty good shooting there and thanks for the information. It is quite interesting. However, I am stumped by you being cold. There is no snow on the ground. I think you are in a southern state, hence lack of true winter. Do I detect the hint of namby pamby? Snork snork

  5. John- I’ll weigh the suppressor tonight. But I suspect your figures are dead on.

    Roger- I know, but I didn’t want to spend 5-6 hours. 🙂

    ERJ- just trying to help folks out a bit. As Roger pointed out to actually be scientific, I should have done it the right way. 🙂

    Fargo- damn right I’m a wimp. 🙂 I grew up in the DEEP south! Anything below 50 is too damn cold… LOL

    Fla- you’re welcome 🙂

  6. Nice to see someone else hitting the range with the lowly .22. I thing many times shooters become enamored with all the hardware and forget all the fundamentals. A day spent on the range once in a while with a good open sights .22 can add a lot of polish to a shooters accuracy. Nice shooting! 🙂

  7. Bill- It actually sucked… But you’re right, an old open sights .22 WILL humble one, and make you get back to basics in a hurry! 🙂

  8. When allowed to by assorted HHC types, I screwed a KAC can on my M-4A1 any chance I had, for one thing, it helped with the balance of the carbine and the bigger reason was when I had to fire from inside the Humvee, it didn’t hurt my ears nowhere near as bad.

  9. Dude, when did you grow the face hair? It looks pretty good on you. I use me to help hide the ugly. What is yours used for… keeping the face warm on those cold range days?

  10. SPE- Heard THAT! (kinda sorta, since I’m about half deaf…)

    CP- You got it, I call it my ‘winter coat’… 😀