Logical fallacy…

Soooo, Newsome did the ‘deed’…

California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Wednesday signed an executive order to ban gas-powered cars and trucks in California by 2035, a move he said would cut greenhouse gas emissions by more than a third.

Full article, HERE.

And there’s this… The proposed rule would not ban people from owning gas-powered cars or selling them on the used car market. But it would end the sales of all new gasoline-powered passenger cars and trucks in the state of nearly 40 million people.

Now if you believe that, I’ve got this bridge…

In the late 90s, there was a move afoot, led by Gray Davis, in Cali to ban ANY vehicle older than 5 years old, specifically targeting older non-OBD cars/trucks. That was overcome by SEMA and the car clubs in SOCAL banding together to get enough signatures to get it on the ballot and scare the legislature into backing off on that. This time around, they will make it happen unless there is a similar push from the local folks.

Now, let’s look at the power issue..

HERE is a good link on charging an electric car.

Depending on how old your house is, you may have one of the following:

  • 30 Ampere. 30 ampere service has become quite a rarity, as this was mostly early homes. A 30 ampere service would only be of 120 volt capability. Those rare cases where 30 ampere service is found would be small older homes that have been lived in by the same family or person for a period of generations, and the need for modernization or upgrade has not presented itself. This service is considered inadequate for modern living.
  • 60 Ampere. This is typically the lowest capacity for a 120/240 volt service. This capacity is considered to be marginal at best for modern living. Quite often, 60 ampere service also includes the presence of an old fuse panel, as opposed to the more modern circuit breaker panel.
  • 100 Ampere. A large number of existing average size homes have 100 ampere capacity electric services. Average size homes with gas or oil heating systems and hot water systems generally do not need electric service of greater than 100 amperes capacity. Of course, this can also depend on the electrical usage of the occupants, and the use of other electrical appliances.
  • 150 Amperes. Common practice is such that this has become the typical minimum that might be installed in modern construction for a single family home.
  • 200 Amperes. This is becoming the norm for modern single family residential construction. In many instances it is not a necessity, but it is installed with new construction.

So, you have a 100 amp capacity, and you have two electric vehicles. That means 2 more 30 or 40 amp dedicated circuits. What do you give up? Fridge? AC at night? Or do you pay $1-3000 to upgrade your service, plus the cost of a charger or chargers?

And all your neighbors are doing the same thing…

How long will it take to get to the head of the line? And what are PG&E, SMUD, and the other power suppliers going to do? They can’t provide needed power now, much less for 18 MILLION electric cars and trucks (current estimate of vehicles in California).

Oh, and one other thing… Newsome will be long gone, as will most if not all of the legislature when this goes into effect…


Logical fallacy… — 44 Comments

  1. I have a cousin who resides in Oakland. Because of sky high residence costs (especially if a new home and their onerous regulations), people choose to live in older homes. Homes with no where near the required electrical load in their panels.

    Electrical contractors will make a mint on this. I’m guessing some homes will combine with their next door neighbors to share the burden / cost for these charging stations, but how do you know which home spent charging more then the other ?

    Watching people voluntarily destroy their sanity is cringeworthy.

  2. Don’t forget the other side: The typical electric delivery system will only support about 3 or 4 electric cars per block on top of current demand. The infrastructure hasn’t been updated to support an electric vehicle in every garage. Not to mention they don’t have the generating capacity to meet the demand as it is TODAY.

    • Not sure about Cali, but when I upgraded my 80 Amp service to 200 Amp service I had to get permission from the local utility before they would run the heavier wiring from the transformer to the meter base. Fortunately at that time there was surplus power available, and the utility was in the process of upgrading the distribution system in my neighborhood anyway. I can imagine that in lot of older neighborhoods, SoCal Ed or LAWPD will put you on a (long) waiting list to be upgraded. Even after getting to the top of the list, you’ll have to pay $5,000-$10,000 to get the power run to your house, plus a new, new circuit breaker box, and new up to code wiring. Poorer people living in older homes will be SOL.

  3. It seems that the only requirements to be a California politician is a lack of math skills and a belief that wishing makes it so.
    People will flee California and New York, and then begin changing where they live into the same failed states that they left.

    This isn’t going to end well.

  4. I work in the electrical industry, and I swear some people think power just magically comes out of wall sockets…

  5. Spot on. And the thing that grates the most is that they already know all of that. They don’t care. Just one more reason why wife and I GTFO of Kalifornia in 2015 and moved to Texas.

  6. Much of that electricity comes from coal-burning power stations, elsewhere. How many pounds of coal for a battery charge? YOU’RE STILL BAD! Make an interesting horror graphic for them.

    • Nuh unh.

      California’s renewable portfolio standard mandates that 60 percent of its electricity must come from renewable energy (mainly wind and solar power) by 2030.

      It’s the law. Just like gravity, only self inflicted.

      • The last I looked, California was buying a lot of electricity from other states. I wonder if it gets crunchy, just who will be turned off…

  7. I foresee car dealers with lots of gas-powered cars for sale springing up right next to all of the casinos in Primm and the other towns right along the CA/NV border.

  8. Eh, they will just have Arizona build more power plants. A big chunk of the power California uses already comes from Arizona, so it’s not a problem.

    I figure that the California legislature will repeal the law eventually, this is mostly a way to virtue signal at no expense for Newsom and company.

    • The infrastructure to distribute that power doesn’t exist in California. I worked for the California ISO which manages all the electrical power in the state a while back. Things are a lot worse than you can even imagine.

    • I’ve been saying that Arizona needs another nuclear power plant (in the North, maybe Flagstaff?) It would be a good source of revenue for the state – selling power at 3X the price to California.

      • There is room for up to seven more units at Palo Verde. The grid connection to SoCal already exists. Most of the site licensing work is already done. As long as Phoenix keeps flushing toilets, there will be adequate cooling water available. Adding one or two AP1000 units (NRC approved design) would be a reasonable option. Two of these units are nearing completion in Georgia and four units are in commercial operation in China.

  9. Pardon for taking up some of your bandwidth for a non-related comment, but I just got notified of this via my AUSAExtra email this morning:
    Merrill’s Marauders have received final legislative action to receive the Congressional Gold Medal. As of 13 hours ago, there were 8 of the Marauders still breathing in and out, representing the 3000 total who volunteered for the 5307th Composit Unit (Provisional) in 1943.

    The bill passed the Senate in December 2019, and was passed by the House this week. It now goes to President Trump for his signature.

    (PS: A Georgia brag! The bill was originally introduced as S2114 by Georgia Senator Johnny Isakson in November of 2017, but was not voted on. He re-introduced the bill in March 2019; it was passed by the Senate on December 5, 2019.
    In August, 2019, Isakson announced his retirement for medical reasons, effective December 31, 2019, so it is possible that this was a tribute to him personally; the bill was initially given only a 4% chance of becoming law by the Skopos Labs.)

    • Newsome is both a fool, and a tool of the very rich in California. Everyone with a brain knows this.
      However only democrats are allowed to run for office and he promised all the illegals (who vote in that state) as well as all the welfare and homeless people, MONEY. Lots of it.
      He also promised to protect them from the law.
      But look how many times they elected Brown. A man who has never accomplished a single worthwhile thing in his entire life, who has destroyed everything he’s ever touched, and never worked a job in his life and is incredibly rich.

      People in California are just REALLY STUPID.

  10. I’m pretty sure that Newsome’s power as governor doesn’t allow him to actually do this.
    But just like Brown and the democrats before him, he enacts a law that doesn’t take affect until almost a decade after he’s gone.

  11. Virtue signalling of the highest order – and pandering to his base right before the election. Despicable and dishonest.

  12. Dear Mr. Bergeron,
    Please refrain from exercising any common sense in front of your elected representatives.

  13. Executive orders that take effect in fifteen years are only real if the executive at that time agrees.

    Newsome isn’t willing to accept the political costs of this taking effect now. Ergo, he is either blatantly lying about it ever taking effect, or is a little bit nuts to be thinking that the political realities will be that different in fifteen years.

    On the other hand, this is a year where it might be appropriate to forgive people for being nuts.

    Gripping hand, this was a cynical ploy to preserve his own political career.

  14. All- Thanks for the comments! And thanks for the backup from those of you who work in the industry. Y’all keep your data pretty close hold. Pat- Saw that!!! Yay!!!

    Posted from my iPhone.

  15. The insanity runs very deep. We went to a model home display for a design competition that focused on easy to install homes post hurricane or other disaster. The design rules required solar panels and an EV charging station but did not require batteries, so the PV system would ONLY work if the grid was up, and could only charge a car during the day if it was at home.

    Some nice ideas for sustainable/self-contained housing but too many blind spots in the design rules.

  16. Gov. Newsome signed an executive order today guaranteeing a rainbow farting unicorn for every child in 2036.

  17. Angus McThag, over at ‘The Abode of McThag,’ has an interesting unintended consequence of this ruling, dictat, special order #666, whatever.

    This may be the end of the dominance of the California Air Resource Board over the automobile industry.


    Just think of it. Cars not so overloaded with emissions controls and other not-good stuff that they get great gas mileage again!

    But, yeah, California sucks. And there’s no money to completely upgrade an already failing system. As you pump more power through a grid, the lines need to be bigger, the separation between the lines increases in distance, and the farther you need to clearcut vegetation away from the lines. All things that California has effectively made impossible today (upgrading transmission and distribution lines, vegetation management, adding new lines to the grid, etc.)

    As we have seen with the current ‘climate change caused’ wild fires (well, most of them are people-caused…) the existing grid can’t support what is drawing from the grid now.

    They (California politicians) are really setting up a Haves-Have Nots situation, aren’t they?

  18. Hey Old NFO;

    I commented before and I will say so again “California’s power grid can’t handle the demand now, and they want to add a bunch of electric cars to the load”. They have to buy power from other states because they can’t produce what they need because the wind, solar, hydro and unicorn farts can’t meet demand and Newsome makes that asinine demand?…As Bugs bunny quoted “What a maroon”. Good things is like Angus suggested is that finally the U.S Auto industry will be free of “California mandated” standards and start having cars with more power and performance.

  19. CA wants to build 8000 acres worth of solar array here in my little WV county. Tear up OUR fields and woods to feed power to a state that not only has more space than we do but has proved that renewable energy cannot sustain their needs. And that renewable energy has driven costs through the roof for the CA user.

  20. I don’t even want to think about how expensive the electric bills are in Cali. It was bad enough 10 years ago. I saw our first bill and couldn’t believe it.

    • We are in So Cal Edison territory. For Time of Use metering the peak rate is $0.48/kw-hr for 2 PM – 8 PM M-F

      Good thing we have a solar array and battery system so we are a net generator most of the day. At the end of the month my power bill is for connection charges, and at the end of my operating year I get a credit if I’m a net generator for the whole year.

  21. Energy conversion and transmission you always lose some at each step. No “charger” is perfectly efficient. Hydrocarbon powered cars convert stored energy in fuel to heat (in the cylinders) to mechanical power (crank) and drive train to wheels – electric cars have all of this except the 2nd one. But they also lose power to the transformers in the chargers and in the batteries to motor wiring and the motor itself (electric motors get hot, too).

    And the difference gets made up by the (non-existent) power plants so they buy power out of state.

    Why I’ve been calling them COAL POWERED cars for year.

  22. Unicorns farting rainbows are more likely than this crap. It is not feasible. As noted above, California regulations will not allow upgrading power transmission lines or new powerplants.
    Just adding the load of 20% electric vehicles to a neighborhood would double its’ power demand, requiring new local lines, new substation, and new main lines into the neighborhood.
    Forget power from Arizona. At 20% EVs, it would take most ofvthe rest of the country to supply the needed power.
    The problem the Calidiots are not looking at is water, which b will soon bute tgem b in the ass.
    John in Indy

  23. 200 Amp service has been the norm in new construction since the 80’s at least. At least here on the east coast and south.

    Disclaimer…I have 40 plus years experience in the trades.

  24. When I moved back to California (wifmann’s allergies and aging father) i had an older Chevy one ton utlity body six cylinder truck. I loved that truck.
    I took it in to be smogged per Californiza law.
    The smog service tech said that due to various factors built into the computerised test equipment, that is wired directly into Sacramento, my vehicle tested as a “Gross Polluter” and would have to be scrapped. I could take it out of state, but…no way would Cali allow me to keep it.
    He said it was a shame because the emissions measured from my truck were less than the new vehicles of the same type on the road.
    Did i mention I loved that truck?

  25. Also, Gravid Nuisance’s Executive Order is loaded with weasel-words around ‘where feasible’ etc. so the order can be ignored in 15 years if it isn’t politically viable to kick gas/diesel out of CA.

  26. When Greenies start talking electric cars for everyone I write out “E=IR” on a sheet of paper and ask “What does this equation mean?” If they can’t I tell to come back when they know what the *#)^ they’re talking about. It DOES cut down on the babble.

  27. All- Thanks for the comments. Mike- I understand that 200A service has been the ‘norm’ for a while, but up here in north Texas, there are some old houses (like the one across the street) that still have 60A service. sigh…

    Posted from my iPhone.

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