This article comes from Britain, so take it with a grain of salt…
SOME electric vehicles (EV) models are losing their value at twice the rate of the petrol equivalents, it was claimed.
EV prices have plummeted by 39 per cent between 2020 and 2023, while petrol car value fell 30 per cent in the same period, according to Choose My Car.
Drivers have been pushed towards EVs by government initiatives intended to help reach net zero by 2050. But they risk losing thousands of pounds more than those who stick with petrol.
A driver who bought an electric BMW i3 in 2020 paid £39,000 but could only sell the car for £13,900 today, a depreciation of 64 per cent.
Full article, HERE from the Telegraph UK.
If you manage to ‘brick’ or completely discharge your battery, regardless of age, the possibility exists that it will have to be changed. How long does a Tesla battery last? Supposedly up to 200,000 miles in the US, from Motor Trend- HERE.
Now let’s look at battery costs… Found this on a Tesla site- For the Model S premium sedan, replacing a Tesla battery costs around $13,000-$20,000. Model 3 entry-level sedan and Model X premium SUV battery replacement can cost at least $13,000 and $14,000 respectively.
And you have to add in up to $175/hr for labor… from 3 to 13 hours, depending on the car.
It may look like I’m picking on Tesla, but their information is the most available, and probably the most reliable…
When you add it the costs to charge it, both the modifications needed to ‘most’ home wiring, and now the charges being laid on public chargers and the time lost, I just cannot justify spending that much for one of them…
YMMV and all that…
You might wamt to look at a PHEV or a straight hybrid. Batteries on a hybrid are tiny but on the right vehicle are cheap to replace. When looking at a hybrid educate yourself on the difference between a series or paralel hybrid. I recently bought the small Lexus hybrid, ux250h, as a second vehicle. 10 year/240,000 km battery warranty. There are two types of batteries – metal hydride or lithium ion. As to an electric only vehicle – not for me with range issues and long term issues. Would have liked to get a PHEV to one able to run it on a second fuel source if when gasoline availability becomes an issue. Currently toyota fpr hybrid or PHEV seen to be the way to go.
Issues with Electric Vehicles (EVs):
1. They drive 40% less then what the dealer says in distance before needing charge. In cold weather they are worse then warm weather.
2. Using A/C, Heat, or any other car features uses power and cuts down drive distance
3. To power them a person’s house needs to have an Electrician modify the house’s electric power so the EVs can be charged when not used (usually overnight), cost around $2K
4. If a person lives in an Apartment or Condo then charging the EV off the person’s power is not usable. This causes the person to rely on charging stations.
5. The charging stations are not standard for all EVs. So the Federal Government should come up with standards for power plugs, charging amounts, and how the costs are made (Credit Cards, etc)
6. Many charging stations do not work at a location. With copper steals going on this increases the chance that Charging Stations will not work.
7. Charging at charging location take time and if people are there using there is increased delay not found with fuel vehicles when they fill up.
8. Charging stations have to be found through smart devices and planning when driving. Also the charging stations are not standard.
9. The EVs have issues with the batteries over time. When the batteries fail then the EV dies and there is no way to have it working until a replacement battery is installed.
These are not standard and based on the vehicle. If the vehicle is still made then at a minimum at will take 2 weeks and may take months. Costs are high and the batteries are from overseas and made of non standard materials that cannot be put into normal landfills due to toxic materials.
10. Lack of power, brownouts or blackouts affect charging EVs, non-EVs do not have this problem.
11. The USA is using about 2-4% of EVs and the push is 50% by 2030 but the Electrical Grid cannot support that.
12. The Electrical Grid power is mostly from Natural Gas, Coal, Nuclear, and then minor is Wind and Solar. Wind and Solar do not last over time.
13. The cost of an EV is much more then a gas vehicle+gasoline or diesel vehicle+diesel fuel
14. Hurricane Ian in Florida it was found that flooding of water (and sea water) causes EV batteries to catch fire, and when the FD puts it out they will still catch fire later. This causes fires to surrounding area. They are toxic.
A couple of other things you forgot to mention, JG
The battery loses about 1% of charge per day. Even not driving it. it is a parasitic electrical drain to keep it fully charged.
The battery cannot drop below a certain temperature, so in well subzero weather the car would have to be stored in a heated (probably by LP gas) garage. It cannot simply be parked outside unplugged for a day or more.
The addition of home charging in a smaller community may well involve the power company having to beef up their residential transmission lines. I suspect they will not simply install them free out of the goodness of their heart.
EV’s are a fire hazard. If there is any damage at all to the battery pack, it’s likely to catch fire later, and this is a very hot fire that cannot be extinguished. It both releases all the energy stored in the battery and exposes flammable materials. That includes lithium, which burns under water.
So any EV that’s been in an accident should be dragged out somewhere far from buildings, other cars, and flammable vegetation until either the battery is removed or the EV is scrapped – most likely the latter. The battery was close to half of the value of a new EV, so with the cost of battery replacement added to the other repairs, repairs for most crashes will exceed the time and mileage depreciated value of the EV.
But even undamaged EV batteries sometimes spontaneously catch fire, not only while charging and while driving, but also sometimes just sitting parked. So never park it in your garage, or near a building, other cars, or anything flammable. We’re going to need bigger parking lots!
Finally, even if nothing goes wrong, you are wearing out the battery each time you drive it and recharge it. That means faster depreciation. The numbers cited (2/3 of the value lost in a 2 to 3 year old EV) seems quite reasonable to me if, besides the normal mechanical wear of any vehicle, you assume that the battery will need replaced soon.
I assume from the use of the word “petrol” that this is a British report. Here in the US used car values have definitely not lost 30% of their value in the last three years. The continuing struggle to source parts for vehicles added to inflation has caused car prices to go through the roof. My buddy’s Jeep Cherokee needs replacement because it lost a valve seat. He’s looking at used cars to replace it and can’t find anything in a reasonable price range.
Here in my town they installed EV charging stations about ten years ago (guesstimate). About two years ago the City Council was talking about a needed upgrade and it turned out that the city was paying for all the electricity used from those stations. Any payment was voluntary and the company running the stations was keeping that in any case. A lot of pissed off people but no way to hold anyone accountable at that point.
Our van is a 2003 Town & Country that we bought new. Battery died last month (Interstate, 3 year free exchange, then three year pro-rate). Still had some pro-rate warranty left. Pulled it out, hopped in my truck and headed to the NTB store, came home and installed identical new battery. Total time about two hours. I turn 70 this month.
According to Gas Buddy, gas at Costco is $2.83 today.
This video clip is rather telling–
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCoAsPtgRKg
EV? No thanks.
Here’s one more thing I don’t see mentioned much–it is possible to siphon gas from one vehicle to another.
2x 8k pound battery packs in each tractor (prime mover).
Care to guess what happens to the highway when that truck crashes? Kiss it goodby. Toxic fumes will close the road in both directions. You can’t put the fire out. It has to burn out on it’s own. It will damage the road base, which then has to be rebuilt. Crash on a bridge? Oh boy! NOT a quick fix. Depending on where it happens, you might have to REPLACE the bridge.
Pretty quickly, you won’t be able to get insurance for an EV big rig. Then what?
West coast ports will go away if EV big rigs are mandated.
With the added weight and length of the new tractors, the 53 foot trailers will also go away. They will switch to pulling double or triple 20’s, so they can go around corners. Driver costs will increase due to higher skill ratings needed.
Wait until you get a combined toxic cargo and a battery fire. Fun times ahead…
I will resist buying an EV or hybrid until that is my only option. Most of the cobalt used in the batteries comes from the Congo and is mined by children. I won’t support, directly or indirectly, slavery. Since I do use lithium batteries, I can fairly be accused of being hypocritical.
We have ample deposits of cobalt, lithium, and rare earth elements in our country. The same econazis pushing EVs fight developing these resources.
Sickening when a trust fund snot drives their EV to a “save the earth” rally.
Forget the EVs they are too expensive and the replacement cost for the batteries is rediculous. Does anybody know whatever happened to the turbine engine Chrysler had invented in the 70s? There also was an engine and vehicle that a guy invented that ran on water by seperating the hydrogen from the oxygine. It burned the hydrogen and nothing but clean oxygine came out of the tail pipe.
Turbine engine: Very high power to weight ratio, but low efficiency, especially when it’s shrunk down for a car. Turbines make sense in airplanes where thousands of horsepower are required, and much of the fuel you are burning goes to just keeping the airplane in the air, so the weight reduction may save more fuel than the lower efficiency costs. In ground vehicles, it costs much more and burns more fuel. The only successful use of turbine engines on the ground have been in the M1 Abrams tank and a few race cars.
As for the hydrogen engine “that ran on water”, it takes energy to separate the hydrogen and oxygen from water, more energy than you get by burning the hydrogen and oxygen. You’d have to pull another engine and large petroleum fuel tank on a trailer, and your gas mileage would be much lower than the conventional piston engine and transmission connected to the driveshaft.
Dave- Good points…
All- Thanks and y’all are seeing the same issues I am.
Will- Yep, THAT isn’t getting spread around at all.
John- The problem with the ‘turbine’ was it required specific start up and shut down procedures otherwise it had the potential to ‘catastrophically deconstruct.
The more those in power flatulate about banning the sales of new IC cars, the more demand there will be for old ones..
That drives up prices and keeps the older, less fuel-efficient IC vehicles on the road longer.
What do they expect low-income people to do?
Another problem with EVs is that they are even more sensitive to expensive damage from minor impacts than regular cars
https://hotair.com/headlines/2023/05/06/fella-finds-ev-repairs-can-be-pricey-with-42k-bill-after-just-a-fender-bender-n548856
Having said that modern vehicles with radars and other sensors stuck in the fenders, lights and everywhere else are a lot more expensive to fix than old ones that don’t have them. I know people who’ve been given huge bills to fix things where they reversed a bit too far and hit a wall at (maybe) 5 mph
Similarly Subaru tried to sell us a special “windscreen” insurance because if you have to replace the windscreen in a modern Subaru it costs a fortune because you have to jigger with the eyesight self driving crap (and may need to replace some of it too)
E=IR.
Say that to any greenie or politician and watch their eyes glaze over.
I’ve discovered the louder the demands for EVs the lower the understanding of physics AND economics.
Peter- They want to drive them to ‘public transportation’, which doesn’t exist in rural environments!
Francis- Great point!
Stretch- True!
We have three vehicles on the farm that are almost daily drivers 2013 F-150, 2014 Silverado 1500 and a 2018 F-250 (gasser). All are almost at or over 200K miles and with normal, routine maintenance- I bet all will see 300K without major work.
The most expensive repair was the Chevy’s control arm bushings (because I didn’t want to f*ck with it because I was working so much OT).
Jim…
Yes. Exactly. It’s the modern version of “Let them eat cake”.
Stunningly arrogant.
In the meantime, I’ll keep driving my old diesels. The cheapest thing I can do is keep putting more diesel in their tanks.