For those who’ve read Rimworld Diversions.
I got this for a 3 star review, and, while I can see where he’s coming from, I’m curious if anyone else thought the same thing…
OK. I did like the story lines, but a few things spoiled it for me.
I got to the point where on each of the incredible number of occasions when one of the women would huff a disparaging “Men” as they flounced off, my teeth would grind!
The captain needed to grow a pair. I have never served under an officer who would tolerate being overruled by his crew Running a ship is not a democracy. And for two of his womenfolk, unarmoured and unarmed,, to thrust him out of the way and run into a hostile vessel because a female voice was calling for help… Well, just wouldn’t happen in my world
I use composite characters based on folks that I know, and ‘most’ of the women I know are pretty strong personalities in their own rights. And most of the men I know tend to…shall we say, ‘get out of their way’ on occasion…
And Danny has less comfort dealing with females, either AI or human than most, because of being a loner for years.
Did I go a little too far over the top with this one???
And as an aside, THANK YOU to those who’ve reviewed the book, I’m sitting at 98 review, so ‘almost’ at the 100 level to get wider distribution on Amazon!
Danny doesn’t deal well with *people*. Especially women.
Yeah … I probably agree with the reviewer. Danny felt “washed-out” to me and got rolled over.
I view the command structure on Ghost as a bit of a egalitarian construct, a bit like some special military units. There is an overall commander, but all members of the team are active participants in the planning and execution phases of a given operation. The team lead has the final say in any given situation, but there may be times when other team members assume temporary lead.
Knowing when to let someone who is technically a subordinate take the helm is a leadership skill too few possess.
Also, while I know you are writing for a contemporary audience who are subject to contemporary roles, mores and customs, those mores and customs and roles may be somewhat or even substantially different in future times.
So no, I was not bothered by the way you wrote it.
It’s not a military ship.
Also, folks have never heard of a ‘hen-ship’. These are / where real things, especially in the world of wooden ships. Yes, Danny gets pushed around a lot, but then he always has to some extent or other and now he’s really outside of his comfort zone.
He’s also dealing with several headstrong people who seem to move a bit ‘too fast’ for him.
I did read the book. But because I didn’t purchase over $50 in the past year on my Kindle account, I cannot review your book. I enjoyed the story, however it ended too soon. I could have used another 100 pages or so. Five stars from me.
OldNFO, your books are not set in the present. Therefore, your characters can behave differently than current habits. Your female characters are very strong and while the ship is figuratively commanded by Danny, the ship is somewhat more democratic than might currently be expected.
I tend to agree with Tom in NC and John Van Stry. It’s not a military vessel and the command structure is looser. Ghost is run more like that of a business or special unit where rank doesn’t matter as much, and everyone can have their say.
But Danny is out of his comfort zone. He’s gone from being a sole operator to leader of a team. Sometimes he is unsure and is at least willing to let others have input rather than being a dictator out of his depth. I, and I bet others, have worked for those and it is a miserable experience.
I’ll need to find that section. I’d expect Estrella as ship’s AI (and XO) to stop that: security and safety protocols for crew and ship – good point.
The “strong female” characters – yeah, that gets overdone. On a world surface, maybe. In a space-going submarine, they need to get over it and fast, before Major Disaster discovers that Private Snafu made a visit.
Ignore the trolls.
Follow your muse.
What’s next? Aliens are unrealistic?
I’d say maybe a little bit overdone. It didn’t throw me all the way out of the story but it certainly was a bit disconcerting.
*grins*
Hell, I’ve always considered Danny to be the Captain-in-name-only, whose main talents are self-destruction and finding people smarter and more skilled than him for his crew. They then do what they deem best, and Danny’s… Danny is Shaggy to the Scooby Doo gang. Nominally the owner, in no way in charge.
Granted, it doesn’t fit the mold of the current dime-a-dozen Space Opera, with a strong-willed maverick captain and a crew of outcasts, on a dysfunctional ship, given one last chance to redeem himself while all humanity’s fate hangs in the balance…
But that doesn’t mean it *should*, either. If you turned Danny & Ghost’s crew into just like the others, it’d break all the characters.
All- Thanks for the comments. I can now see what y’all are talking about, and as Wing says, I can’t really ‘fix’ all of that without breaking the characters. Sigh…
I’ve got a while to try to sort that set of issues out, so I’ll see what I can come up with.
FWIW, I don’t see them as issues. The crew on Ghost is like a family and I think it works well as is. Don’t break them!
Danny is new to having a crew, wife and family, real and in the crew sense. He’ll learn, adapt, and grow into it just as anyone would. That growth and the crew’s adaptation to it is part of the story arc I think.
I gave you 5* but when you write Sci-Fi (even if it’s happening in the present or near present), you are creating a world. If you’d told me in 1973 (50 years ago) what 2023 would be like, I would NOT have believed you. So you get latitude with doing what you do. Whether I like some characters that you create is my personal thing. Sometimes I’d like to see some your characters be “deeper”, but you still got 5*.
Hey Old NFO;
I liked the characters, and the other posters are correct on their comments. My main “quibble” is that “Danny” for a decisive leader in combat and other things is very indecisive when it comes to dealing with the “women-folks”, Now “Esse” is an AI and she is the ship and the ship is “Esse”, I can understand the way he treats her but to totally be subservient to the women don’t make sense because a person is a decisive person don’t just “turn it off”, I get the Happy wife Happy Life concept, but Danny needs to have some backbone with them. He is a loner and laid back normally unless the situation calls for different, but a person that is a loner will show backbone.
I love your stories and I can see the world as you describe it and I enjoying “Traveling In that world”.
Thanks folks. I’m learning… I hope…
Occurred to me while moving stuff: Grandma has appeared on the scene, and may help Dani step down from mostly-fiercely independent; “My dear, your son needs you alive and in one piece … as does your husband and the other grandchildren I want to enjoy. Plus a couple things you need to know about Danny’s father. So, let’s have coffee and talk while the little one is napping.”
Danny now has two strong Alpha characters available: Viktor and that surprise you sprang. One or the other needs to take Danny planetside for a few days during a refit, and do some development tell and show. He needs to grow up and out of his loner shell.
The bridge crew (at least) looks two ways now after the last battle. An interesting way to resolve action, but the practical impact of a more qualified CO on board could get messy in future plots.
I like the comments above. My thought, for a civilian or partial civvy ship, is that in emergencies the Captain needs to decide and give orders, and the orders need to be obeyed. Also for routine operations – make all the inputs they want, but someone makes the decision for the ship and crew. The someone can’t be the least capable of the bunch. Danny needs to step up some more; being Dad now gives him more impetus.
Jim…
I very much agree with the reviewer. It’s not an anti-woman thing, it’s an “I-hate-bullies-and-poor-leadership” thing.
I grew up around women who were capable, ran businesses and were independent when required. But they also deeply respected the men in their families, and did not try to treat them like boy-children every time there was a conflict.
The hen-pecked male trope may be good for laughs in fiction and may be far too common in real life, but it is not a best-practice model in a command situation when the safety and welfare of the enterprise depend on a leader who provides a unifying direction. Leadership includes listening and delegation, but it is *delegation* not *abdication* to whoever shouts loudest, flounces hardest or is first to run off at a tangent.
OK, Danny is what he is *at this point*. You’ve basically written him as that very green 2nd-Lt who is fresh out of training and is surrounded by strong-willed NCOs who tolerate him, but think that they are the ones really in command. Your challenge, if you are to continue the series, is to show him developing strength of character, confidence and command-ability…. and gaining the respect and support of his NCOs and men.
Can you mature him into the kind of officer that you would have willingly followed into harm’s way when you were in the military? Or will he remain the one that you are constantly worried that you will have to steady the ship in a crisis, because you don’t trust him to be up to the job?
Cheers….. Peter.
If I may add…. Most of the women you “know” are not part of a crew in situations where a lack of leadership and cohesion can get somebody killed.
People get away with a lot when the penalty for getting it wrong is not spilled blood. If you want to put Danny and those he loves in that kind of situation, there are consequences.
It may pay to read some of the literature on composite crewing.
The Israelis gave up sex-integrated infantry because the females looked to the males for protection, and it was the males who did stupid shit to protect females whenever the females were threatened. That isn’t culture, that’s biology. If you try to counter biology with culture… well one of the consequences of inculcating a disregard for gender differences, is an increase of male/female violence. Because , while it may jot be said out loud, the idea that women are absolutely equivalent, and the idea that men should not hit women…. Is self-evidently contradictory.
Where women are a small minority, the women get held to lower standards and men feel pressure to help and protect them. Where women are the majority, men tend to slack off because the majority set the standard and there is no pressure for the men to compete for female attention. Again…. Biology.
Anecdotally, female-dominated tend to be bitchy, cliquey and competitive.
I’m talking as a long-time fan of authors like Jane Austin and Georgette Heyer. Ladies who could create female characters who were both strong AND feminine. Characters who were not “men with tits”, and who did not need to demonstrate their strength by being rude, arrogant and domineering. Nor by engaging in feats of strength that scream “fake” to anyone who has engaged in real heavy lifting or hand-to-hand combat without a rule-book or referee.
That’s not a crack at you, Jim. More pointing to a string of current movies that haven’t done very well financially, because the female leads have been cartoonish. Just hoping to make an argument that encourages you to take your characters in a different – and more realistic – direction.
Feedback is feedback. Not criticism.
Cheers again…. Peter.
All- Thanks for the feedback AND constructive criticism! I DO appreciate it and will use it to ‘improve’ Danny in the next book. All good ideas!
As a young guy you get taken advantage of by girls. You learn a lesson and either put up with it again or learn to tell women no. Strangely enough, women like and respect men who tell them no.
Have it be a life lesson on his way to being a stronger character.
I don’t/didn’t think Danny’s actions were particularly out of character for him. Until he was forced to add crew Danny was running his ship with JUST the AI Estrallita when we first see him. He is NOT Ethan Fargo, ex military (and particularly Special Services). The world we see is to some degree like 18th and 19th Century shipping, the Captain has great powers officially but in actuality he has to exercise it through the crew members and their hierarchy. There situations where (piracy, storms on the sea, also working whaleboats in whaling) the Captain NEEDS that control. Danny has troble with this as he is dealing with his wife who is a specialist in her own right and very intelligent, and absolutely dear to him but is NOT necessarily set in the crew mindset and Estrallita who was his ONLY interaction before adding crew, and herself as an AI is fairly “headstrong” (need a new word for this with a Sapient/Sentient AI). On top of that she often has FAR better information than Danny due to her information access, processing speed and potential access to another more powerful AI. Danny’s crew is to some degree a set of misfits all stuck together (mostly due to manipulation by the outside AI one presumes) with the emotional equivalent of duck tape and bailing wire. Honor Harrington, Horatio Hornblower, Jack Aubrey and James T Kirk combined would have trouble riding this herd of misfits let alone a conflicted, introverted loner/hermit like Danny.
Oh and as an aside I love your books in this universe, and await further entries with anticipation, thank you for adding yet another author that I can count on for a good read.
Xoph- Good point! Thanks!
Treg- That is also an excellent group of points. And thanks!
Got all the books and love the series – thanks for good writing and a fun read. With that – Danny is who you saw in your story and you have portrayed him in an honest and consistent way. So, don’t second guess just go with your instincts as they are right on. Sure there are “issues” but, so what? Danny is who he is and your stories work.
I’m seeing two streams of comments here.
1. That this is not the military and that the characters are all “difficult” and individualistic.
I’ve spent 40 years in a volunteer fire service. The majority of the personnel I work with are self-employed, self-motivated and very confident that they “don’t need anyone to tell them what to do”. There is a very strict limit to formal discipline, because volunteers can go 🖕🏼and walk away at any time without punishment, loss of pay or consequences. As an officer, I have been contradicted and outright abused in front of others, and had to man up and deal with that in ways that both dealt with the existing situation and restored the working relationship. As I am “on the spectrum”, it was tough, but that was the job that I took on.
Point is, these highly independent people WANT leadership and direction, because they understand that teamwork is beneficial. They don’t expect perfection, but they do expect a certain level of competence and decisiveness. They expect known and consistent procedures. Chaos may add “drama” in movies, but movies have a script-writer who can turn stupid into lucky guess. In real life, stupid gets people hurt and property destroyed.
Pardon me nerding out on the subject, but it has been part of my life for decades and I’ve had to study the hell out of it because it did not come naturally. In real life, Danny needs to grow some balls, or watch his crew quarrel and fragment. If they won’t listen to him, they won’t listen to each other.
2. Some have referred to certain military groups that operate with a less formal command structure. Those groups have certain distinct characteristics.
– Every member is highly SELF disciplined.
– Every member is highly committed to two things, the Team and the Mission. Their own feelings in the moment are tucked away.
– The are PROFESSIONAL. Contrary to Hollywood, there are no angry shouting-matches at the crisis, only calm professionalism.
– They train incessantly. Not only to ensure that every member is competent, but that every member is on the same page and knows what the other team members are going to do in any given situation.
– There is no “going rogue”.
– When the team/unit leader gives direction, everyone listens. The time for dissension and critique is during the After Action Review, not in the middle of the crisis, whether it be a fire or a firefight.
– Every team member has specialist training and expertise at a level quite probably exceeding that of the Team Leader. At no time does it give any of them the right to go off at a tangent, or assume command.
It is expected that a Commander takes a big-picture view. Each individual has a view limited to their particular sector. It is the job of the leader to take input from all those observers to maintain awareness of the overall situation, and in a functioning team, every team member is aware that the Team Lead has more information at that level than they do.
Ghost’s crew is very much like a team that is in enemy territory without backup. In many of their scenarios there is no “safe zone” to which they can easily retreat, and no QRF or Fire Support on the end of the radio. If they are not fully committed to making the team work, there will be consequences. When there is no safety-net, the price of stupidity is paid in blood and treasure, not hurt feelings.
Now Danny is a fictional character, and in fiction he can get away with an endless supply of luck… but it does not make him a really engaging character. There is a time for all of us to grow up, take responsibility for our decisions. As readers, we want to see our protagonist take risks in good cause, learn from his mistakes, overcome obstacles by courage and hard work. We want to see him deserve his success, not just win the lottery time after time, after time.
Yeah, that’s lengthy. That’s because I’ve learnt that convincing people is better than yelling at them… and information is more convincing than “Trust me, bro”.
Cheers all……
2.
Listen to PeterW, Jim. As you grow Danny from what amounts to an ensign who doesn’t people well, the complaints about the women being stronger than him will no longer be valid.
I have left your 99th review- 5 stars- so I hope another has got you the magic 100. Also reviewed some other books of yours I bought. If you feel stymied on more Rimworld books I could offer some ideas. I like print books as I do not have Kindle. Your books are worth my money so far.