From a discussion that took place on one of the mil chats…
But it worked for almost 80 years as the weapon of choice for the US military. Much like ‘other’ technology advances that have occurred, it was overcome by events, political correctness, and whining about how ‘unsafe’ the 1911 was, how heavy it was, how heavy the ammo was, and the fact that there weren’t 17 rounds per magazine. And who’s ‘turn’ it was to get a contract for their district(s).
And everybody could have a different size of weapon, and more ammo…
Rather than actually learning how to shoot, how to carry the weapon properly, etc…
Before you start with me on the ‘issues’ that women have with the 1911, I know of two women who love and carry 1911s as their primary pistol. And neither of them is a ‘big’ woman.
Much of our military are now hobbled by ‘multi-capability’ systems they are forced to use, which are average at best across the spectrum, rather than being GOOD at one thing. From aircraft, helicopters, ships, submarines, tanks, APCs, etc. but you can damned well bet the congresscritters are getting their percentage, and ‘bringing jobs’ to their districts… Even as maintenance on the stuff in service suffers…
Sigh… Glad I’m old and not having to deal with this stuff anymore. I saw how long it took to get ‘new’ systems into service, and how much they were dumbed down by the time they actually got to the ‘end users’ in the field…
Kicking the soapbox back in the corner now.
h/t Joe for the meme.
“GOOD at one thing”: DOTADIW – “Do one thing and do it well”, the core concept of UNIX software design.
Would that we could have stuck to that. So many rants I could let fly right now. *sighs*
So yeah OldNFO, right there with you on this issue, just from a different field.
Here I thought this was going to be about most of the bloggers and readers of said blogs. Because most of you old fat slow farts haven’t seen your peckers in 20 years.
I am not the audience for my pecker, I’ll have you young whippersnapper know. I reserve my gaze for much more admirable terrain. 😉
LOL… No comment
A single stack 1911 is easier to get a grip with small hands than a double stack M-9. It has a much better trigger than any striker fired or DA/SA pistol.
Once you teach someone the push-pull technique for working the slide. I never had a woman not enjoy shooting the 1911
I worked with a nurse in the reserves. She had military quals coming up, and to her credit had bought a civilian version of the M-9. Her hands were way too small for the pistol, but after some experimentation, she was shooting a group at 15 yards you could cover with your hand. I gave her an S&W Shield and she put all 8 in the head at 15 yards on the 2nd try. She left the gun store attached to the range with a Shield to carry. I didn’t have a 1911 there to let her try but I’m sure she’d have done better with it than the M-9.
For occasional pistol shooters (which includes most military folks) a double stack, double/single action pistol is not a good solution. At least they’ve gone to a striker fire weapon but I’m worry about how the P365 (or whatever the .mil designation is) will hold up to military life.
Every good American should own at least one 1911.
Mine was an Army issue Colt manufactured in 1943.
I have a 1944 vintage Remington Rand.
Mine is a 1918 vintage Colt Army.
Re: The 1911. The only argument that made any sense to me was the commonality with NATO ammo. The rest of our Allie’s weren’t going to drop the 9mm.
It wouldn’t have taken much to re-barrel, change the breach face and maybe the ejector, and magazines and had 1911s in 9mm. Talk about low recoil! But it wouldn’t have looked “trendy” I guess.
Right that is why we should have gone to 38 Super, just because gamer round for faster splits …..
The 1911 was designed when the average male was about 5′ 8″. Hand size would be proportionate. That’s about the average size woman now. One of the issues I found was the firing pin retainer has that curl on the bottom. Part of the -A1 changes? Originally it was square. I found a square one and it tames the twist of recoil. Also slows the slide’s initial impulse. The feel is so much better and manageable. It’s a well designed tool.
Yeah, that square bottom was part of the recoil management designed by JMB. After the Army accepted the 1911, and then mandated the addition of a thumb safety, they decided to also mandate a hammer down, empty chamber carry, which negates the usefulness of the safety.
To assist the soldier in racking the slide, they had that square edge rounded off to make it easier to do. The change of recoil dynamics wasn’t considered a big enough problem to offset the ease of racking with the hammer down. They could have been trained to thumb back the hammer first, but I suspect that too many would have equated that to the gun now being loaded. Oops!
I would have preferred that they had deleted the thumb safety at this point, to avoid the future where trainers had decided that it was proper to put your thumb on top of the safety to shoot the gun. Ignorant people…
A big problem for the US military was that they never spent the money to replace old, worn out 1911’s. Ever. Had a buddy in the AF in the 90’s who related how difficult it was to assemble an accurate 1911 from multiple guns to attempt to pass the quals for aircrew. They were junk by that time. He was attempting to get an okay to use his personal 1911 version for quals and carry on armed missions as crewchief on a transport. I don’t recall if either use was authorized. Hmm, I think there was a third application he might have been able to use if for. Something about repelling boarders in a security test. His Aker shoulder rig made it easy to conceal in his flight suit, to the surprise of the intruder, supposedly.
I own both a Colt 1911 and a Beretta FS92. They both have advantages and disadvantages. I love them both, but the Beretta is my carry weapon for reasons I won’t go into on here.
When I was USN, we used the 1911.
A handgun, any handgun, is the least important weapon in the military arsenal. Useful for those who don’t carry a rifle (flight crew for an example). As Sergev Gorshkov is credited with saying, “Better is the enemy of good enough”. The 1911 certainly qualifies.
The Ma Deuce soldiers on. I hope it won’t be replaced.
+1 on Ma Deuce.
“Much of our military are now hobbled by ‘multi-capability’ systems they are forced to use, which are average at best across the spectrum, rather than being GOOD at one thing.”
Thank Robert McNamara and his Whiz Kids back in the 1960s for starting this tradition.
Let’s be honest. The military doesn’t teach anybody save a select few how to shoot well. Especially pistols. Standard Army pistol training is a 15 minute safety brief, followed immediately by the qualification range.
Of course I must point out that after extensive research before WWII even the Army determined that pistols, though nice, suck. Which is why the M1 Carbine was developed.
Too bad Florida isn’t open carry, yet. Dammit. Stupid RINOS from (wh)Orlando (yes, we call it that) and Mi(j)ami (yes, we also call it that) have continually stuck a nail in Constitutional Carry and Open Carry. Bastids.
All- Everyone raises good points. And yes, McNamara et al started that crap… beancounters… spit
A week ago Thursday I took my 14-year old cousin to the range.
Taught him how to fire a 1911 … in .38 Super.
Damn young whippersnapper (thanks McC) out shot me with my own gun!
Started him going through the motions with an empty mag.
Then with one round in the magazine.
Then with full mags.
Kept ringing the gongs that I was missing 1/3 of the time.
I’m gonna blame my eyes. Yeah! My eyesight is going.
Stretch- LOL, yeah, that happens to us all!
I will surrender my 1911 when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.
And the slide will be locked back…..
I love 1911s and think I shot my best group ever with a custom Commander Cody…
Let’s see how fast new weaponry’s rolled out to the boys.
drjim- Yep!
LSP- I’m not surprised.
I love the 1911. In the history of handguns, it reigns supreme.
A .45 is akin to the Roman gladius. It’s not fancy, it’s not sexy, but it works very, very well. And really, isn’t that all you need?
I’ve shot more 9mm than .45, but I never noticed the .45 to be hard to handle (the first time I shot a .357 Magnum, though, I almost dropped it).
LL- Agreed!
Toast- Exactly, sir.
Well yes….. A 1911 is a very comfortable gun to shoot. However, if you are a small (5’2″, 120lb) ‘compact but curvy’ woman in a state that requires concealed carry? And you have a completely f—ed lower back? The 1911 pretty much requires the gun burkha. And that is a trade off at the office. And not a minor trade off either. It is fine in some settings. It is not fine in others. I like the sub compacts, thank you.
The 1911 bug bit me again after many years without one. PSA got me with a deal I couldn’t pass up on an RIA full-size with a rail. Now I’m looking for a good leather holster and some range time. Here’s to hoping that old muscle memory comes back.